From: Sam Norton (elizaphanian@tiscali.co.uk)
Date: Sat Apr 17 2004 - 18:00:01 BST
Hi Mark,
> Mark 17-4-04: The Metaphysics of Quality is an Intellectual pattern of Value.
> Christianity is not an intellectual pattern of value - Christianity is a
> combination of Social and Intellectual patterns. In so far as Christianity is, in
> part, composed of Intellectual patterns, the MoQ is superior.
That argument doesn't appear to follow. The less comprehensive is superior to the more
comprehensive? Why?
> Aristotelian Metaphysics is an intellectual pattern of Values. The
> Integration of Intellectual patterns into a religion such as Christianity and Islam is
> that way in which Christianity and Islam evolve; they must evolve by
> accommodating new Intellectual patterns or die.
> But it is the Intellectual patterns which are leading this evolutionary
> process.
> Your attempt to Integrate the MoQ is the latest in a long line of religious
> attempts to stay alive; to stay alive by evolving into something new.
> It seems to me that you are failing - slowly, and by degrees, religions are
> changing to the point where they become so different from what they were as to
> become irrelevant, atrophied and static.
Putting aside the derogatory tone, there's nothing here I disagree with - it flows from what I have
said about the social level being the realm of language and mythology. Where I think you need to
examine your presuppositions concerns the possibility of an intellectual pattern of value being
independent of mythology and language - it can't be done. So: what is your mythology?
> Mark 17-4-04: The Metaphysics of Quality is an Intellectual pattern of Value.
> That it is valued high enough for it to be regarded as meat for assimilation
> into the body of Christianity is really a value of it as a threat to
> Christianity itself. Christianity has become one of many front lines of battle between
> social and Intellectual values, as each level tries to simultaneously respond
> to DQ.
> The MoQ is superior to religion as it explains more in terms of empirical
> experience.
That presupposes explanation as the highest good. I think there's more to life.
> Mark 17-4-04: The Metaphysics of Quality is an Intellectual pattern of Value.
> Human Life has Intellectual, Social, Biological and Inorganic components. The
> MoQ explains how these for components interact. Christianity has become one
> of many front lines of battle between social and Intellectual values, as each
> level tries to simultaneously respond to DQ.
> To say Metaphysics only applies to one area of life is like saying Gravity
> only applies to one area of life. Life is lived in a Gravitational field
> (Inorganic pattern of value) on Earth - it is ignored but a crucial part of living.
> Metaphysics is a crucial part of living for many people who value Intellectual
> patterns. Intellectual life for these people strives for the best and most
> valued intellectual patterns, and that pattern is, for me, the Metaphysics of
> Quality.
> The MoQ is superior to religion as it explains more in terms of empirical
> experience.
The more that time goes on, the more I think that the MoQ - especially as it seems to function in
this forum - is a social level pattern of value. Indeed, anything that is expressed in language is a
social pattern of value (for language is social level). The question is what dimension of quality is
dominating that social pattern. (In the same way that running is a biological activity, but running
in the 100m in the Olympics is at least in part a social activity).
In other words, I don't see a hard and fast distinction between a religious mythos and a
metaphysics, especially Pirsig's. They each resolve down to stories - which Pirsig foregrounds by
his own work.
Sam
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