From: Joe (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon May 03 2004 - 03:54:41 BST
On 29 April 2004 10:52 AM David M writes to David
David M
Back to general point about 'truth' really. I state my own
position as critical realist, i.e. I get all that post-modern
metaphor stuff but am happy to say that a conversation with nature
occurs, therefore we can make truth claims about what we think
nature is telling us (even without any natural language, we sort of
have to persuade nature to become a conversational partner in a language
we have constructed). But I am less sure what I think about truth outside
of the context of science. What are your views on truth?
joe: I am odd man out, but I have enjoyed your exchange.
IMO The organic, social, intellectual levels evolve from the inorganic
level. Science follows the preferences of the inorganic order. It seems to
be reasonable to be less sure of tgruth in the other orders. They are much
more specific.
Joe Maurer
> regards
> David M
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "storeyd" <storeyd@bc.edu>
> To: "Joe" <jhmau@sbcglobal.net>; <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:25 AM
> Subject: RE: MD Religion of the future.
>
>
> > Hi all
> >
> > David M said: I have been disappointed by the overall reaction to Sam's
> > >ideas, seems to me that we should be promoting the MOQ for all not
> driving
> > >out people who bring in heavy baggage like Christianity or pragmatism
or
> > >whatever. Although I equally think people should not take offense at a
> bit
> > >of heated argument or even abuse, but we aren't all as non-sensitive as
I
> > >am.
> >
> >
> > While tolerance is an indispensible attitude to productive discussions,
it
> is
> > not the ceiling of discourse, and ultimately it is a limited
perspective.
> > Why? Because of the same problem that plague many a postmodern
pluralist:
> > nonjudgmentalism. it's when the subject does not merely reserve
judgment
> in
> > order to acquire a critical, multi-lateral perspective, but becomes
> incapable
> > of judgment, and lumps all views under a the relativistic banner of
> pluralism,
> > sanctioned by watchwords like sensitive, pluralistic, inclusive, etc.
> This
> > is, to an extent, all very good, but in the impassioned rush to achieve
> > inclusivity, one risks conflating and ignoring the irreconcialable
> differences
> > between different views; in other words, not all differences are formal
> > (however, much of the postmodern world believes all ideologies,
> viewpoints,
> > perspectives are different amalgamations of forms, signs, surfaces,
texts,
> > etc., that is, it does not believe in qualitatively different content
> (which
> > is another way of saying that it does not believe in spirit, meaning,
> Quality,
> > etc.) This is what happenned with Sam. Remember, Pirsig certainly
feels
> that
> > some views are of a higher caliber of quality than others. Christianity
> > (well, what C.S. Lewis called "mere christianity", which basically means
> the
> > sine qua non of the faith, meaning that the incarnation was a literal,
> actual,
> > historical event, the only way to God) confuses DQ with SQ, and that
> means,
> > according to Pirsig's metaphysics, that it is a low or limited quality
> view,
> > period. No buts. The truth, David M, is that Sam removed himself from
> the
> > discussion, we did not drive him out. The insensitivity, you see, is
due
> to
> > him, not to others who disagreed with him and tried to convince him
> otherwise.
> > "heavy baggage", after all, tends to weigh one down, and in general, it
> is a
> > nuisance to those who sincerely wish to travel.
> > What do you think?
> > -Dave
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
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