From: Matthew Poot (mattpoot@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun May 02 2004 - 23:25:11 BST
Hi,
In an interesting conversation I watched today, with the Dalai Lama, and
Arch Bishop Desmond Tutu ,
there was not as much debate about god and religion.
Both, had said very little , in essence, which was much different than the
other.
Both, stated that the freedoms (including democracy, free speach, gambling,
porn, booze, weed, etc.)that are a part of various countries are not the
important thing to focus on (although they are important).
The Dalai Lama said something like : The important thing to remember about
freedom, is that the freedoms you have should not be encroaching on the
freedoms of others.
Arch Bishop Desmond Tutu said something as well, that I particularly liked "
The sea is made up of drops of water. Each drop joins together with other
drops, to form the whole sea"
It could not be overstated that organized law, or religion cant be the sole
guide in a persons life, but they must look to themselves and the
consequences of their actions.
Maybe i'm off topic?
POOT
----- Original Message -----
From: David Morey <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: MD Religion of the future.
> Hi DMB
>
> I think that much religion is about security and fear,
> i.e. trying to combat these feelings and dreads.
> Hence god the father, hence rituals to ward off dangers.
> I think it is a terrifying thing, existentially, to face up to the
> open universe that DQ implies. A Norwegian philosopher
> has an interesting take on this fear:
>
> http://www.philosophynow.org/issue45/45tangenes.htm
>
> Alone with DQ facing the next crashing and breaking wave of
> the future, the ride can be a bit rough, skill and understanding
> of the SQ involved is essential if we are to have even a chance of
> survival. But are we for sitting on the beach or the surf?
>
> "What is a thing? The negation of the possible; the embodiment of what has
> been; the disgusting and the glorious; freedom lost; divine love;
> inexplicable duration; our very own work. The freedom of Be(com)ing pours
> out so fast that we only see a compressed and repressed com-less being.
But
> she keeps pouring out, and appearing at new levels, coming face to face
with
> herself, as if there was not One but an entire com-unity of things.
> Do you understand what I am saying? It all begins and is derived from
> freedom. But how did we ever think anything else? Open your eyes, take a
> breath. What does existence consist of? The only existence I know is human
> existence. What is it like to exist? Existence is alive and aware and
free!
> Does anything exist outside of awareness? How could we ever know?
Existence
> is awareness. Am I really free? As an existing awareness in a finite
world,
> as a finite being with a past, I cannot imagine how I could be any freer
> than I am. But what use this freedom to humanity?
>
> To the elusive One it has no use. To our new God it is nothing, it is
given
> away, anonymously; without waiting she's gone. She laughs, rushing on
ahead
> of us, dragging us by the hand, having fun, bending the rules, and
breaking
> the waves. Her gifts rain down on us, pouring possibilities on our heads;
> wave after wave; inexpressible riches; are we going to just lie here
> overwhelmed? Are we going to be buried alive under it all? Or are we up
for
> it? Surfing the sea of faith, as we wave goodbye to the old God burying
> endless bodies and building doomed castles on dry land.
>
> Is the world perfect? Far from it! What could speak more loudly of freedom
> and responsibility? Before freedom became human freedom how did things
> stand: a universe, fire, light, earth, water, and life. How good these
> things? And humanity? Step to the front of the stage and judge for
yourself!
>
> Does it all concern us? Do we care? What else could concern us? Do we look
> around us with satisfaction or disgust?
>
> And what of us? Our fellow men, our precious women, our time travelling
> children, do we see them, can we hear them? Who gave them their freedom,
who
> gave them their values, needs and their possibilities? Do you know what
they
> are? Do you understand? Do you raise your hand or voice against them? Are
> you better than them? More deserving perhaps? Are you doing a good job?
> Efficiently, with the minimum of costs, are you sorting out the problems?
Do
> you merit reward? Are you kidding? Do I look like a fool? Is power safe in
> your hands? Nice watch, ten thousand pounds you don't say; you better be
> careful where you're driving. How many millions have you killed today? Yes
> sir, if you have the money we certainly can arrange it. A new world?
Another
> one? Sir I'm not certain, it could be tricky. Actually, your credit is no
> use around here anymore. I hear things are not going so well in your
> business. People have moved on. You see, we don't really want the things
you
> sell anymore."
>
> From The Secret Of Matter by D.Morey
>
>
> regards
> David M
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Buchanan" <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 8:29 PM
> Subject: RE: MD Religion of the future.
>
>
> > Mark said to dmb:
> > I agree with you that a religion of the future would do well to
> concentrate
> > on it's very source, but then, it would become a mystic religion? In
this
> > sense, its quite a bit different from anything by which current
religious
> > institutions shape themselves?
> >
> > dmb replies:
> > Yes. I think the churches of today fail as windows to DQ and instead
serve
> a
> > strictly social function. The religions of the future, one might hope,
> will
> > be very different indeed if they are mystical. They will serve our
> spiritual
> > needs, not just our social needs. This is the heart and soul of
religion,
> > and its precisely what's missing from "mere christianity". Just in case
> > you're not sick of Wilber yet...
> >
> > When I was a youngster, and being the mad scientist type, I used to
> collect
> > insects. Central to this endeavor was the killing jar. You take an empty
> > mayonnaise jar, put lethal carbon tetrachloride on cotton balls, and
place
> > them in the bottom of the jar. You then drop the insect - moth,
butterfly,
> > whatnot - into the jar, and it quickly dies, but without being outwardly
> > disfigured. You then mount it, study it, and display it.
> >
> > Academic religion is the killing jar of Spirit.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > dmb
> >
> >
> >
> > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
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>
>
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