Re: MD Religion of the future.

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Wed May 05 2004 - 18:17:52 BST

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    > We all do so, necessarily, but we should always
    > be willing to face challenges to them and revise them if we
    > cannot meet those challenges. Religious beliefs don't have
    > that property: they are held whatever the facts.

    I would certainly say that this is unfair because many
    people who take religion seriously are more than happy
    to re-think religion in the context of new knowledge coming
    to light, I would sldo say that it is a valid point in so far as
    I would also ask us all to continually re-think what we know and believe
    in the light of new knowledge, I think a life that resists such
    challenge a poor one, some religious people and atheists do seem
    to try to ignore new knowledge preferring their long held
    assumptions. Essentially I am inclined to place knowledge based
    on experience and a genuine dialogue with nature above that
    knowldge that is asserted in old books and is often more interested
    in worlds that do not exist here on earth.

    regards
    David M

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:48 PM
    Subject: Re: MD Religion of the future.

    > Hi Mark H,
    >
    > > It wasn't my intention to evoke another mindless diatribe against one of
    > > the great thinkers of the 20th century.
    >
    > You brought up Chomsky and added an arguable assertion, not me.
    >
    > > Certainly you can agree or
    > > disagree with Chomksy, but to attack him ad hominem, and dismiss him as
    if
    > > he were some school child who hadn't done his homework makes you look
    > > ridiculous. Too bad.
    >
    > By your lights I'm in good company because no one looks more ridiculous
    > than Chomsky when he asserts that America is "a leading terrorist state."
    > Too bad, indeed.
    >
    > > What's ironic about your attack is that Chomsky certainly agrees that
    all
    > > belief systems are necessarily based on uncertain premises. Below is
    his
    > > recent response to a statement that science had proved the impossibility
    of
    > > resurrection:
    > >
    > >
    > > **** BEGIN CHOMSKY
    > > Within the framework of our scientific knowledge,
    > > resurrection is next to impossible. But those who believe
    > > in resurrection wouldn't contest that. Their point is that
    > > science provides only limited understanding of reality, and
    > > there's no way to argue against that conviction.
    >
    > Pirsig agrees that science provides only a limited understanding of
    > reality and argues convincingly for that conviction. As I said, Chomsky
    > should read and try to absorb ZMM and Lila. One of the greatest thinkers
    > of the 20th century might learn something. :-)
    >
    > > My own feeling is that it's not wise to hold irrational
    > > beliefs.
    >
    > No belief is more irrational than Chomsky's that there's moral equivalence
    > between the terrorists who attacked on 9-11 and the U.S.
    >
    > > We all do so, necessarily, but we should always
    > > be willing to face challenges to them and revise them if we
    > > cannot meet those challenges. Religious beliefs don't have
    > > that property: they are held whatever the facts.
    >
    > Note the irony. Chomsky holds so-called 'facts' higher than religious
    > beliefs even though 'facts' (like religious beliefs) arise from a belief
    > system based on uncertain premises--a 'fact' Chomsky concedes.
    >
    > > That's
    > > not unique to religion. Unfortunately, it's a large
    > > component of the intellectual culture, at the "highest
    > > level" -- what Hans Morgenthau, the founder of realist
    > > international relations theory, called "our conformist
    > > subservience to those in power." It's enough to read the
    > > morning's newspaper or intellectual journals to find plenty
    > > of examples, which in my opinion at least, are far more
    > > dangerous than belief in resurrection.
    >
    > What's sauce for the goose . . . Many consider Chomsky's views far more
    > dangerous than belief in resurrection.
    >
    > Best,
    > Platt
    >
    >
    >
    >
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