RE: MD Morality of deadly force

From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun May 09 2004 - 20:18:33 BST

  • Next message: InfoPro Consulting: Mark Heyman: "RE: MD Morality of deadly force"

    Mark, Platt and all:

    DMB had said:
    It strikes me as a rather crude formulation to equate terrorists and
    criminals with the biological level and then assert that we ought to kill
    them like germs. This sentiment echoes Hitler, not Pirsig.

    Platt replied with a quote from Pirsig:
    "Phaedrus had had no answer at the time, but he had one now. The idea that
    biological crimes can be ended by intellect alone, that you can talk crime
    to death, doesn't work. Intellectual patterns cannot directly control
    biological patterns. Only social patterns can control biological patterns,
    and the instrument of conversation between society and biology is not
    words. The instrument of conversation between society and biology has
    always been a policeman or a soldier and his gun." (Lila, 24)

    And Platt asked:
    Would you like to rephrase what you said about not echoing Pirsig and
    comparing him to Hitler?

    dmb answers:
    This is a particularly spectacular example of the selective reading fallacy
    I complained about earlier today. This is the kind of thing Mark has also
    pointed to, saying that Platt's presentations leave us "hanging", but that
    we can complete the thought by turning to the text. And I say this is a
    prime example becasue Platt has simply chopped the paragraph in half. After
    "a soldier and his gun", Pirsig writes...

    "All the laws of history, all the arguments, all the Constitutions and the
    Bills of Rights and Declarations of Independence are nothing more than
    instructions to the military and police. If the military and police don't
    follow these instructions properly they might as well have never been
    written."

    And two or three pages prior, he writes...

    "...these human rights are all intellect vs society issues. According to the
    MOQ these human rights have not just a sentimental basis, but a rational,
    metaphysical basis. They are essential to the evolution of a higher level of
    life from a lower level of life. They are for real.
         But what the MOQ also makes clear is that this intellect vs society
    code of morals is not at all the same as the society vs biology codes of
    morals that go back to a prehistoric time. They are completely separate
    levels of morals. They should never be confused."
     
    And one page after the "conversation" quote, he writes...

    "A culture that supports the dominance of social values over biological
    values is an absolutely superior culture to one that does not, and a culture
    that supports the dominance of intellectual values over social values is
    absolutely superior to one that does not."

    dmb concludes:
    So the answer is "no". I do not care to re-phrase. Instead, I'd ask Platt if
    he would like to find an interpretation that does NOT make Pirsig into a
    self-contradictory fool who is obsessed with killing criminals and sinners.

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun May 09 2004 - 20:21:51 BST