From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Mon May 17 2004 - 19:36:06 BST
Hi DMB
Good points, it reminds me of Charles Taylor's
point that values and structures are rarely simply black
and white or good and bad, such as nationalism
that has played both positive and negative roles in history.
Surely this shows the strong need for a cosmic evolutionary ethic
in which we can ask questions about retaining SQ achievements
vs seeking new DQ possibilities. The SQ achievements: knowledge,
language, social structures are all in the business of avoiding the
suffering that contingent events can cause.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Buchanan" <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 1:32 AM
Subject: RE: MD Quality evil destruction contingency
> David Morey posed for discussion:
> In the world of the MOQ, what is evil? Why is there destruction? What is
the
> relationship between patterns and contingency?
>
> dmb says:
> I thought the other Dave's answer was pretty good. "All evil is
contingent",
> it's "phase-specific", it's "assymetrical", as Dave S put it. Generally
> destruction is a natural part of the evolutionary process and is even a
> normal feature of everyday existence for those of us who eat. But then
there
> is destruction of the evil sort. Beyond the most conspicuously evil acts
> like murder, genocide and all that bloody stuff, evil is "an unnecessary
> suppression of DQ", as DS said. In other words, its evil to stand in the
way
> of evolution. This raises the question of how to know the difference
between
> preservation of worthy sq and inappropriate clinging to it. How do we know
> the difference between positive change and social destruction?
>
> The case of the ZUNI Brujo is a meditation on those questions. (chapter 9)
> And this little morality koan leads Pirsig to make the static/Dynamic
> split. he explains that there was a deep "conflict between a priesthood
anda
> shaman" and employes EA Hobel to describe the priesthood as "fixed in a
firm
> set of traditions" and shamans as "arrant individualists" and "always a
> threat to the order of the organized church". Pirsig tells us that both
> sides proclaimed itself good and the other evil. And then he says...
>
> "As Phaedrus thought about this context again and again it became apparent
> there were two KINDS of good and evil involved.
>
> The tribal frame of values that condemned the BRUJO and led to his
> punishment was one kind of good, for which Phaedrus coined the terms
'static
> good'. Each culture has its own pattern of static good derived from fixed
> laws and the traditions and values that underlie them. This pattern of
> static good is the essential structure of he culture itself and defines
it.
> In the static sense the BRUJO was very clearly evil to oppose the
appointed
> authorities of his tribe. Suppose everyone did that? The whole Zuni
culture,
> after thousands of years of continuous survival, would collapse into
chaos.
>
> But in addition there's a DYNAMIC good that is outside of any culture,
that
> cannot be contained by any system of precepts, but has to be continually
> rediscovered as a culture evolves. Good and evil are not ENTIRELY a matter
> of tribal custom. There has to be a source of good and evil outside the
> tribal custom that produces tribal change."
>
> I guess it'd be good to begin a discussion with the distinction between
> these "two kinds of good and evil" in mind.
>
> two cents,
> dmb
>
>
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