From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Tue May 18 2004 - 22:49:30 BST
Dear David B.,
You wrote 15 May 2004 20:10:37 -0600 that the problem we were talking about
is still very big in your experience (even if 59% of all Americans is an
exaggeration). You illustrated that with:
'The USA has the highest rate of inequality in the industrial West AND the
USA is the most religious nation in the West. Co-incidence? I think not.'
The problem was irrationality among Americans. I don't see a link between
irrationality and either inequality or religiosity, nor a reason why
inequality and religiosity should be linked. Can you please explain?
There may be more religious (and less inequal) nations in Europe. See
http://religionstatistics.bravehost.com/statofrel1.htm .
Do you have more supporting evidence for the strength of manifest destiny
and end time thinking among Americans that could convince Platt that it is
not a product of your (according to Platt 18 May 2004 16:08:37 -0400)
'fevered imagination'?
Platt wrote 15 May 2004 12:04:31 -0400:
'Correct me if I'm wrong but the "Left Behind" series consists of at least 8
fictional novels. How 60 million copies sold, (assuming that figure is
correct) supports your 59 percent statistic escapes me. 59 percent of the
total adult American population is 123 million. Neither the figures, nor the
fictional content of the books, support your statistic. Many consider the
books just a good read, not a reflection of their religious beliefs.'
I don't know those books nor their popularity, so I ask you whether Platt
has a point there.
You continued:
'I have to confess that it [that the world should be shaped and led by the
USA] does seem like the world's best shot at global democracy.'
I expect more from the European method: gradually luring more neighbouring
countries into becoming more democratic and respecting human rights
(essential for democracy!) by promising them membership of the European
Union when they do. I don't believe in the enforcability of democracy and
respect for human rights. Especially not if you only force it on the thugs
and tyrants that threaten your national interests and not on those that
don't and if you don't respect human rights yourself whenever your national
security seems better served by ignoring them.
Please give me the opportunity to explain myself BEFORE you call what I
write weird and irrational.
I wrote:
'Americans obviously ARE educated to think irrationally (by politicians
employing "manifest destiny" thinking, by bestseller writers employing "end
time" thinking) The problem may be how to change the patterns of that kind
of education rather than how to strengthen other types of education that
compete with it?'
You replied:
'Politicians and popular writers are considered educators on YOUR PLANET
perhaps, but not in this world. And the suggenstion that Americans would be
better educated, not by improving the educational system, but by demanding
better best-sellers and political rhetoric is way past weird.'
Maybe 'educating' is the wrong word. Can't one use that in a broad sense of
'everything that moulds people's actions and ways of thinking' in English??
YOU explained the irrationality of Americans that is expressed (but
overestimated) by this 59% statistic with "manifest destiny thinking" (which
I supposed is mainly spread by politicians) and "end time thinking" (of
which you mentioned this "Left Behind" series as an influential source).
I put a question mark behind that suggestion. Whether better best-sellers
and political rhetoric would be better ways to reduce irrationality than
education in schools depends on their relative influence on American
thinking and actions. I don't suppose American school education to promote
irrational thinking and actions unless you Americans tell me so. You did
tell me that manifest destiny rhetoric and specific best-sellers promote
irrationality. Why do you react so stung to a suggestion to reduce that
influence??
You concluded:
'I'm only suggesting that people who know HOW to think are less prone to
irrationality. I'm only suggesting there is a link between the quality of
education and the level of irrationality within a culture.'
I fully agree if you widen 'education' to 'everything that moulds people's
actions and ways of thinking'. If religion is an important factor, than
religious leaders have a responsibility comparable to that of 'educators' in
a more strict sense. If best-sellers and political rhetoric are important
factors, writers and politicians should feel responsible too. And we could
tell them so. Is that really so irrational or weird??
With friendly greetings,
Wim
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