From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Tue May 25 2004 - 17:18:22 BST
Hi MSH,
Thanks for clarifying your beliefs. A couple of comments and requests for
further explanation.
ph
> Let's see. Unless I grossly misread what you say, you are mostly
> against the U.S.
>
> msh:
> Not at all. I'm against any entity that projects its own power, for
> its own purposes, at the expense of the freedom of others, using
> "freedom" in the MOQish sense.
What do you mean by "freedom in the MOQish sense?"
> ph
> against the U.N.
>
> msh says:
> Not really. I think the IDEA of a UN is a great one. And there are
> times when the UN, even as it exists, can be used to emphasize any
> nation's disregard for world opinion. This is useful. But as long
> as any UNSC resolution can be vetoed by any one of only five nations,
> well, just how much of a world organization is that?
So would you abandon the security council and rely on a democratic vote of
all nations regardless of size or form of government?
> ph:
> against capitalism,
>
> msh says:
> More generally, against any economic system that says it's morally ok
> for a few people to have billions while billions have nothing. I
> mean, think of the teleology here: There's just not enough stuff for
> more than one person to own everything.
Don't understand your last two sentences. "Teleology" means belief in an
underlying purpose to natural evolution. What's the connection to the
following sentence about "just enough stuff?"Also, I'm I correct to assume
you are also against a free market economy?
> ph:
> against the media
>
> msh says:
> Not sure how I can be "against" the media.
If you believe the U.S. media is largely a propaganda arm of capitalism and
the power elite, is it far fetched to think you might be against it?
>ph:
> and against establishing a democracy in Iraq such as was
> accomplished in Germany and Japan following WW II.
>
> msh says:
> As I've argued elsewhere, the LAST thing the US policy makers want in
> Iraq is a democracy, at least not in any meaningful sense of the
> word. They don't even want it here, to the extent that it can be
> said to exist. (This sounds familiar: Am I starting to quote
> myself?)
I assume you will be fleshing out what you mean by democracy if you choose to
expand on your views as requested below.
> ph:
> In other words, what sort of government do you envision under the
> rubric of Pirsig's highest moral value of "freedom."
>
> msh says:
> One of the great things about a non-teleological, DQ driven, morality
> evolving metaphysics is that we don't have to envision an end, and
> can't anyway.
May I remind you to what Pirsig says about teleology in Lila:
"There is no quarrel whatsoever between the Metaphysics of Quality and the
Darwinian Theory of Evolution. Neither is there a quarrel between the
Metaphysics of Quality and the "teleological" theories which insist that life
has some purpose. What the Metaphysics of Quality has done is unite these
opposed doctrines within a larger metaphysical structure that accommodates
both of them without contradiction." (Lila, 11)
> All we have to do is NOT IMPEDE the free flow and
> interaction of ideas and maximize individual freedom for the greatest
> number of people possible. Under these conditions, the morally
> perfect society will be approached asymptotically. At least this is
> my understanding of the MOQ.
>
> Nevertheless, if you are really interested, I believe I can sketch
> some of the characteristics of a more moral socio-economic system
> than what we have now.
Please do. Thanks.
Platt
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