Re: MD quality religion (Christianity)

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sat May 29 2004 - 11:02:52 BST

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    Hi Mark

    Thanks for your tolerance towards
    people with a religious perspective.
    Having read Charles Taylor's Sources of
    the Self, and other books I believe that a
    secular perspective is inevitably nihilist, immoral
    and unable to support rationality, which makes
    you the irrationalist. But in case you think you
    can smell religious faith in my view, I subscribe
    to no organised religion. Another thing that has led
    me to this view is that it seems to me that a religious
    commitment is one of the most powerful ways of
    sustaining a moral approach to life as you have described
    very well. The equation secular=rational is Enlightenment
    propaganda created to distance the intellect from religious
    organisation and control for the sake of intellectual freedom
    -a good thing at the time. Let's trust in the testament of the
    world rather than the book as Galileo suggested.

    In the post-secular future, I suggest,
    we may start to re-recognise the reality of quality/DQ & to
    this I suggest, the only rational relationship is one that contains
    many elements that we would previously call religious.

    Kind regards
    David M

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 2:23 AM
    Subject: Re: MD quality religion (Christianity)

    > Wim, and all,
    >
    > I thought this thread was petering out, but I see Platt is back in
    > action.
    >
    > This might be a good place for me to get on the record regarding
    > religion, in the normal sense of that word. Even though I think
    > there is no rational basis for religious beliefs, I DO NOT believe
    > that people who have them are irrational in all phases of their
    > thinking, and therefore have nothing of value to contribute to life.
    > Far from it.
    >
    > In Central America, in the 80's, while American trained, financed,
    > and logistically supported death squads were maiming, raping and
    > exterminating peasant populations in places like El Salvador and
    > Guatemala, some of the strongest resistance came from members of the
    > Catholic Church, priests, nuns, missionaries. These people went
    > repeatedly into situations where they knew they would be targeted
    > right along with the people they sought to assist. In fact, many
    > were indeed maimed, raped, killed. It is clear to me that such
    > people, in that situation, were highly moral, incredibly brave,
    > infinitely valuable.
    >
    > In my own activism, here, I've been lucky enough to work with similar
    > folks. I know what they believe; they know what I think. The issue
    > never comes up because we are DOING something that is more important
    > than the issue, and we are all aware of this. This is the point, I
    > guess: I don't care what people believe; I care what they DO.
    >
    > Although I'd really rather focus on the new thread, Wim, if you like,
    > I'll address Platt's comments about the Vietnam War, justification
    > for the attacks on Iraq, evidence for WMDs and when it was available,
    > torturing prisoners, goals of Islamic extremists, atomic bombs on the
    > Netherlands, evidence for "sinister" motivations behind American
    > foreign policy, and the School of The Americas (about which you are
    > absolutely right, BTW). If you read back through my earlier
    > exchanges with Platt you'll see that many of these issues have
    > already been treated, along with plenty of suggested reading for
    > anyone interested in verification. Since his nearly hysterical and
    > paranoid ravings continue unabated, I can only assume that Platt is
    > not really interested in understanding some easily demonstrated
    > historical realities. This is unfortunate, as I thought we were
    > making progress. I see now it's a waste of time.
    >
    > Best,
    > Mark
    > InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
    > Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
    > Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com
    >
    >
    > "Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but this flash is
    > everything." -- Henri Poincare'
    >
    >
    >
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