Re: MD MOQ and The Moral Evolution of Society.

From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Mon May 31 2004 - 14:08:37 BST

  • Next message: Mark Steven Heyman: "MD Noam Chomsky"

    Hi David M,

    > Yes, that's OK. Perhaps I am thinking
    > less that DQ is more complex, but its activity
    > becomes more complex, and as DQ is an activity
    > I see it as making a necessary appearance within
    > what we call consciousness, i.e. I cannot imagine
    > consciousness in an exclusively SQ context. Can you?
    > Rather that would be unconsciousness would it not?
     
    When you bring up consciousness you raise a huge mystery that our best SOM
    scientists haven't a clue about. Oh, there have been stabs at explaining it
    by such people as philosopher Daniel C. Dennett and physicist Roger Penrose.
    And, there's a Center for Consciousness at the University of Arizona devoted
    to unravelling the mystery, with less than stellar success. So whether
    consciousness is related in some way to DQ I couldn't say except that the
    meaning of the word does bear a close resemblance to words that Pirsig uses
    to describe reality such as "experience," "awareness" and "dim apprehension."
    (How can there be "experience" without consciousness?)

    But, I think Pirsig would deny a close relationship between consciousness and
    DQ. For him consciousness is linked to mind which, in order to function,
    creates dualities such as DQ/SQ and Subject/Object. Prior to that split
    demanded by the intellect is Quality. Only secondarily can we talk about
    consciousness and unconsciousness or more simply, the two states of awake and
    asleep.

    A Pirsig quote that supports this view is as follows:

    "In this basic flux of experience, the distinctions of reflective thought,
    such as those between consciousness and content, subject and object, mind and
    matter, have not yet emerged in the forms which we make them. Pure experience
    cannot be called either physical or psychical: it logically precedes this
    distinction." (Lila, 29)

    What do you think?

    Regards,
    Platt

        

     

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