From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Mon May 31 2004 - 20:29:06 BST
Hi Platt
Interesting quote. Beginning with quality=experience=reality
where would we start talking about consciousness?
I think we need to add to quality/experience/reality the openness
that it contains, the possibilities that it foretells. Consciousness
is surely about having to act, to make decisions, to chose between
the alternative possibilities that are present within our experience.
We are aware of the static surround/environment and the open/dynamic future
at the same time. We are forced to choose, I can stay sitting or I can stand
up,
these are 2 of my immediate possibilities, when I am aware of choice I am
conscious.
Now if I set off to walk to my sister's house I have made up my mind. I do
not
have to keep deciding to put one foot in front of the other to get there, I
unconsciously
let my feet do the wlaking for themselves, but if I suddenly decide to think
about it,
(so that thinking = awareness of possibility) I may reconsider and go for
something to eat
instead. I think this is how it fits in. This sort of focus on the need for
decision in experience
is what Sartre is rather good at describing. What do you think?
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: MD MOQ and The Moral Evolution of Society.
> Hi David M,
>
> > Yes, that's OK. Perhaps I am thinking
> > less that DQ is more complex, but its activity
> > becomes more complex, and as DQ is an activity
> > I see it as making a necessary appearance within
> > what we call consciousness, i.e. I cannot imagine
> > consciousness in an exclusively SQ context. Can you?
> > Rather that would be unconsciousness would it not?
>
> When you bring up consciousness you raise a huge mystery that our best SOM
> scientists haven't a clue about. Oh, there have been stabs at explaining
it
> by such people as philosopher Daniel C. Dennett and physicist Roger
Penrose.
> And, there's a Center for Consciousness at the University of Arizona
devoted
> to unravelling the mystery, with less than stellar success. So whether
> consciousness is related in some way to DQ I couldn't say except that the
> meaning of the word does bear a close resemblance to words that Pirsig
uses
> to describe reality such as "experience," "awareness" and "dim
apprehension."
> (How can there be "experience" without consciousness?)
>
> But, I think Pirsig would deny a close relationship between consciousness
and
> DQ. For him consciousness is linked to mind which, in order to function,
> creates dualities such as DQ/SQ and Subject/Object. Prior to that split
> demanded by the intellect is Quality. Only secondarily can we talk about
> consciousness and unconsciousness or more simply, the two states of awake
and
> asleep.
>
> A Pirsig quote that supports this view is as follows:
>
> "In this basic flux of experience, the distinctions of reflective thought,
> such as those between consciousness and content, subject and object, mind
and
> matter, have not yet emerged in the forms which we make them. Pure
experience
> cannot be called either physical or psychical: it logically precedes this
> distinction." (Lila, 29)
>
> What do you think?
>
> Regards,
> Platt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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