From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Jun 06 2004 - 15:29:40 BST
Hi J
Have you seen my new essay on moq.com
I think AM Young's idea that the levels first
head towards constraint before recovering their
freedom might help you here. When we say something
is material we are saying it is less dynamic and somewhat
inactive.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "johnny moral" <johnnymoral@hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: MD Patterns (and consciousness)
> Hi Marsha,
>
> That's an interesting way to think about value through time...
>
> I wonder why those tool patterns haven't evolved toward DQ and become
remote
> controls or cell phones or something useful? Why are they still old
tools?
> Because they are patterns and patterns repeat themselves into the future,
> creating the present, where they sit on a coffee table.
>
> Their value is that they stayed as they were expected, the pattern
repeated
> itself as it was expected to.
>
> I suppose you are thinking of their value as tools, or as collectables,
and
> that sort of value can be put into the terms I'm using in this thread,
too.
> If, as I've been saying here, value is expectation being realized, or
> patterns repeating, then the high value of them as collectables comes from
> the expectation being realized that other collectors will agree they are
> worth some large amount of cash. Their value is precisely how strong that
> expectation is. And their low value as tools comes from not expecting
them
> to be able to do anything useful today, or to probably break if they were
> actually used.
>
> In fact, if we expect them to break if we were to use them, then there is
> high value in them meeting that expectation and breaking. That sort of
> value isn't a monetary value, it isn't a material value, it is a moral
> value, a value that comes from feeling that the universe is ordered and
> predictable. That value is greater than the monetaryl value of the tool,
no
> matter how valuable the tool is. I don't know how much people would pay
for
> the universe being ordered and predictable, but I suspect a lot. After
all
> a dollar is only as valuable as the expectation that someone will give you
a
> dollar of stuff for it.
>
> Johnny
>
>
> >Greetings,
> >
> >A friend keeps on a center table in her LivingRoom a container filled
with
> >esoteric tools from the 19th Century. These tools contain an antique
> >patina, but are in pristine condition. The present function of these
> >collected tools is to promote conversation. Guests try to guess the
> >original use of each item. Their original function, for the most part,
is
> >no longer recognizable.
> >
> >Any one of these tools might add an interesting twist to this discussion.
> >I hope. Anyway, I wondered about their value through time.
> >
> >MarshaV
>
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