Re: MD Statesman?

From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Jun 10 2004 - 18:26:26 BST

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    Greetings, Marsha,

    >But there's a movie called Mindwalk that deeply moves me... The movie is a
    >dialogue between a politician, a physicist, and a poet. It's based on
    >Fritjof Capra's book 'Turning Point'. It suggests we look at the
    >world/existence as being made of interconnected systems and patterns of
    >probability.

    That sounds right on to me, can you tell me more? About the movie, and also
    your thoughts on interconnected systems and patterns of probability.

    >I want to keep my mind open to both hierarctical and interconnectedness.

    Maybe it is heirarchical authority you don't like? Or the idea that a
    "higher" moral pattern is "more moral" than a "lower" one?

    >P.S. I just reread this email. The contradiction is that I start by
    >saying hierarchy is successful, and end by saying it's unsuccessful. I'm
    >going to admit the contradiction, and let it stand.

    Bravo! I think there is room for contradictions, being a slave to
    presenting a consistent front is stifling. There are so many
    interconnected systems, and so many values. It would be very improbable,
    actually, for anything to be wholly successful or wholly unsuccessful.

    PS, Gaugin in Tahiti was kind of monotonous, huh? That's what I felt
    anyway. I liked his carvings though. Did you see the "junk art" exhibit
    downstairs, by Sue Webster and Tim Noble? I really liked that pile of junk
    that formed the shadow on the wall of the two men sitting down. And the
    cheesy shining dollar sign was impressive to me, too.

    _________________________________________________________________
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    attached mail follows:



    Greetings,

    Hmmm.  I certainly can agree hierarchy is a successful method.  I was a programmer for a number of years, and I loved it.  At one point I even tried to put Pirsig's discussion of Western Philosophy into a flowchart.  That was just too much for my little brain to manage. -  But isn't hierarchical methodology of the static variety?  Not low value, but static.  Maybe there's another way.

    I've told people that ZMM is my bible.  It's true.  But there's a movie called Mindwalk that deeply moves me, and inspires me to push forward.  In painting, I've been taught to see more like a painter: squint.  That's what Mindwalk suggests to me.  Squint.  The movie is a dialogue between a politician, a physicist, and a poet.  It's based on Fritjof Capra's book 'Turning Point'.  It suggests we look at the world/existence as being made of interconnected systems and patterns of probability.  There are no easy answers provided, but that doesn't mean answers don't exist.  It's groovy!

    I want to keep my mind open to both hierarctical and interconnectedness.  But as I mentioned, I think hierarchy has not been terribly successful for the whole of humankind.

    I don't really know anything.  I'm exploring.


    MarshaV

    P.S.  I just reread this email.  The contradiction is that I start by saying hierarchy is successful, and end by saying it's unsuccessful.  I'm going to admit the contradiction, and let it stand. 


    At 06:54 PM 6/9/2004 +0100, you wrote:
    Hi
     
    I had concerns at first too. But can we really avoid
    placing things into an evolutionary progression?
    The alternative seems to be to forsake values.
    When we decide what is the best way forward we
    are inevitably rejecting certain possibilities for the
    sake of those we are choosing. But also we can
    respect and give space to all life in the context
    of allowing others their own evolutionary trajectory
    unless conflict arises. Given conflict we have to assess
    how to resolve it, Pirsig's suggestion is that we do so
    in an evolutionary context of levels. It seems to work
    pretty well with the examples we have discussed here
    before. Like killing the virus to save the human being.
     
    regards
    David M
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: MarshaV
    To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 9:36 PM
    Subject: Re: MD Statesman?

    At 06:20 PM 6/8/2004 +0100, you wrote:
    Hi Marsha
     
    Do you havr anu objections/concerns about the MOQ levels?
     
    David M
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