From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Sat Jun 12 2004 - 20:51:27 BST
Mark 12-6-04: Hello dmb, May i ask you to avoid using coloured text please?
My computer and screen are so old you would not believe, and blue text does not
look good for me. Thanks.
Mark and all:
Mark quoted dmb:
And again, it can be seen in dmb's assertion that levels are part of the
oldest idea known to man: dmb 13-5-04: "What's my point? I suspect reality
itself
is ranked and ordered somehow and its not just us imposing our hierarchies.
The idea seems too old, too pervasive, too useful and too well backed by
evidence for us to do anything but believe it."
Mark added:
Mark 25-5-04: There is no textual support in the MOQ for dmb's assertion.
Mark 18-5-04: Quality is the oldest idea known to man. You (dmb) suspect
levels are part of the oldest idea known to man. Therefore, you (dmb) suspect
levels are part of Quality.
dmb says:
Quality is the oldest idea? That statement is far too vague to be useful and
does not accurately reflect Pirsig's thoughts on the matter. Here's the
"textual support" that you imagine does not exist. It comes from chapter 30 of
Lila...
"The physical order of the universe is also the moral order of the universe.
RTA is both. This is exactly what the MOQ was claiming. It was not a new idea.
It was the oldest idea known to man."
Sorry, Mark, but this claim is not controversial in the least. (I almost
excluded the point for being too obvious.) Since the levels represent both a moral
hierarchy and the structure of static reality at the same time, I think its
easy to see that the levels are part of the oldest idea, which says the same
thing; that the "physical" and moral orders are one and the same. You really
don't see that?
Mark 12-6-04: "The physical order of the universe is also the moral order of
the universe. RTA is both. This is exactly what the MOQ was claiming. It was
not a new idea. It was the oldest idea known to man."
Quality produces aesthetic harmony. Aesthetic harmony is moral.
This is the oldest idea known to man.
Coherence is an MOQ derived way of describing Harmonious aesthetic
relationships between static patterns.
If you had said this i would agree with you dmb. However, you said, 'I
suspect reality itself
is ranked and ordered somehow and its not just us imposing our hierarchies.'
Thus, rank and order taken together suggest to me that you are suggesting
hierarchy and not aesthetic harmony is part of the oldest idea known to man.
Aesthetic harmony was certainly experienced long before the imposition of any
structured relationships.
Please abandon the 'You really don't see that?' posturing dmb. I respect your
understanding of the MOQ, so let's not turn this into a problem.
All the best,
Mark
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