Re: MD Is there any more to reason than patterns?

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Wed Jun 16 2004 - 22:27:54 BST

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    Hi

    What is Pirsig saying would you say:
    Is there any more to reason than patterns?

    David M
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "johnny moral" <johnnymoral@hotmail.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 6:41 PM
    Subject: RE: MD Objectivism and the MOQ

    > Platt's response to Paul:
    >
    > >Rand: 2. Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material
    > >provided by man's senses)
    > >
    > >Paul:
    > >Whereas in the MOQ, it is pre-intellectual value which identifies and
    > >integrates the material provided by man's senses.
    > >
    > >"Value is the predecessor of structure. It's the pre-intellectual
    > >awareness that gives rise to it. Our structured reality is pre-selected
    on
    > >the basis of value, and really to understand structured reality requires
    an
    > >understanding of the value source from which it's derived." [ZMM p.291]
    >
    > Platt: "Agree. But this quote does not deny that structure (the
    integration
    > of
    > sense data) isn't created post-value by static emotional and intellectual
    > patterns."
    >
    > Right, the structure is really created, and the values of the
    > pre-intellectual awareness are not sensed or valued randomly, but rather
    are
    > sensed and valued for reasons. This is the connection of Reason, as in,
    the
    > ability of consciousness to order and structure according to values, to
    > Reason, as in, the idea that there is only one way for consciousness to
    > order and structure reality, and it is dependent on the prior order and
    > structure of reality.
    >
    > Unless someone is proposing that each moment bears no connection to the
    > previous or next moments, I don't see how Rand and the MoQ are
    incompatible.
    > Rand just stresses reason, whereas Pirsig stresses value. But you can't
    > have either without the other. Both are aspects of Morality.
    >
    > >Rand:
    > >[Reason] is man's only means of perceiving reality
    > >
    > >Paul:
    > >Whereas in the MOQ, the pre-intellectual perception of reality as values
    > >precedes reason.
    >
    > Platt: "Yes."
    >
    > But there are reasons for the values that are pre-intellectually
    perceived.
    > And Reason is the realization of that fact.
    >
    > Johnny
    >
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