Re: MD distinguishing 3rd and 4th level

From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Fri Jun 18 2004 - 07:09:58 BST

  • Next message: Wim Nusselder: "Re: MD distinguishing 3rd and 4th level"

    Dear Gavin,

    You asked 17 Jun 2004 19:34:37 +1000:
    'would everyone agree that the simplest and major distinction between the
    3rd and 4th levels is that the
    3rd level operates unconsciously, whereas the 4th level operates
    consciously.
    the evolution of consciousness being the point at which the 4th level broke
    from its parent 3rd level.'

    No. 'Consciousness' can have too many meanings to be a simple distinction
    between levels.

    In my version of the MoQ the 3rd level is about (non-hardwired/instinctual,
    non-motivated) behaviour and the 4th level is about motivations of actions
    and explanations of experience. It can help to realize that
    non-hardwired/instinctual, non-motivated behaviour is usually unconscious,
    but it sure can be made conscious. Becoming conscious about hunger doesn't
    make it intellectual instead of biological. Neither does becoming conscious
    about status make status-seeking intellectual. Acting upon the idea that
    relieving hunger is better than fasting (or the other way round!) IS
    intellectual. So is acting upon the idea that a society held together by a
    status hierarchy and by everyone striving for a higher status is a better
    one than an egalitarian one in which other purposes predominate (or the
    other way round!). Social behaviour and intellectual action can conflict,
    even in one person! Just as biological behaviour (e.g. eating when it is
    available) can conflict with social behaviour (e.g. fasting to save food for
    weaker or more essential group-members like pregnant women and children).

    With friendly greetings,

    Wim

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Jun 18 2004 - 07:35:57 BST