Re: MD distinguishing 3rd and 4th level

From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Sat Jun 19 2004 - 13:23:48 BST

  • Next message: Platt Holden: "Re: MD MOQ and Human Variation"

    Dear Mark M.,

    You wrote 14 Jun 2004 12:51:18 -0400:
    'the relationship between ideal intellectual postulations and politics is
    the single most exciting aspect to have emerged from my discussion with
    Platt, for here we have a front line between Intellectual patterns and
    Social patterns.
    ... Rand is not so much integrated into the MOQ as the MOQ indicates the
    moral value of a relationship between Objectivist Intellectual patterns and
    political social patterns.
    I am very happy to explore this with or without Platt'

    It is not clear to me whether we understand each other's definitions of
    'intellectual patterns' and 'social patterns' well to make such an
    exploration constructive. Discussing choices between different 4th level
    patterns of value that might influence 3rd level patterns of value interests
    me, because such influence has a marginally but nevertheless essential role
    in 3rd level evolution.

    Mark 19-6-04: Hi Wim, When you say, 'we' who are these 'we' please? Is this
    you and i or Platt and i, or perhaps you, Platt and i? If it is Platt and i
    then there is hardly any understanding between us at all. I am not sure what your
    position is regarding social and Intellectual patterns, but i am most willing
    to do all i can to understand you.

    So I prefer to continue this exploration (first) in the 'distinguishing 3rd
    and 4th level' thread and (then) in the 'MOQ and The Moral Evolution of
    Society' thread. Some of the statements ascribed to Rand I find actually
    very interesting and potentially valuable (for social evolution), like 'no
    man has the right to seek values from others by means of physical force'...
    (The concept of 'value' used in that statement can be translated into
    MoQish.)

    Mark 19-6-04: What ideals do exist Wim? Any Intellectual postulation
    regarding the best state of social patterns may only ever be approximated. So it seems
    a good idea to me to examine those intellectual postulations which harmonise
    best with social patterns.
    I don't feel Rand is up to the job because there is no social level in her
    thinking. She does not deal with celebrity.
    I do feel the MOQ is up to the job because we may regard celebrity status as
    an art form. We discover at least four modes of the celebrity:
    1. Celebrity which harmonises social Quality with biological Quality.
    2. Celebrity which harmonises social Quality with social Quality.
    3. Celebrity which harmonises social Quality with intellectual Quality.
    4. Celebrity which harmonises all patterns. (which may remove celebrity
    status altogether.)

    With friendly greetings,

    Wim

    All the best,
    Mark.

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