Re: MD distinguishing 3rd and 4th level

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Jun 20 2004 - 17:27:54 BST

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    Hi Wim

    Here is a new definition of consciousness for you,
    any open system that has to make a choice between
    different possibilities is conscious, only repeating
    patterns are unconscious, so that DQ is conscious and lays
    down unconscious SQ in its wake. Any evidence to the contrary?
    This does not mean conscious in our normal sense. A choice
    between possibilities at the particle level will be less
    complex than at the human level.

    regards
    David M

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Wim Nusselder" <wim.nusselder@antenna.nl>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 5:19 AM
    Subject: Re: MD distinguishing 3rd and 4th level

    > Dear David M.,
    >
    > Gavin asked 17 Jun 2004 19:34:37 +1000:
    > 'would everyone agree that the simplest and major distinction between the
    > 3rd and 4th levels is that the 3rd level operates unconsciously, whereas
    the
    > 4th level operates consciously. the evolution of consciousness being the
    > point at which the 4th level broke from its parent 3rd level.'
    >
    > You asked 19 Jun 2004 14:34:43 +0100 in reply:
    > 'How do you know the other levels are not conscious?
    > What do you mean by conscious?
    > Can you be conscious without language?'
    >
    > We can experience the value of the the idea that the first 3 levels are
    not
    > conscious (only) by defining that as a major distinction between the 4th
    and
    > lower levels and comparing the explanatory power of those definitions with
    > that of other definitions.
    > "Conscious" has too many different meanings to be used in a definition.
    The
    > confusion about its meaning in a definition reduces the explanatory power
    of
    > such a definition.
    > When reaching beyond the 4th level you can be (temporarily) conscious
    > without language. Ways to reach beyond the 4th level are provided by art,
    > religion and (given the role in science of intuitively grasped 'truth', on
    > the basis of but beyond a basis of established 'truth' that has been
    > formulated in words:) science.
    >
    > With friendly greetings,
    >
    > Wim
    >
    >
    >
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