From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Tue Jun 29 2004 - 20:33:50 BST
Hi Dan
Many thanks for that very interesting.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Glover" <daneglover@hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 3:32 AM
Subject: Re: MD immoral irony?????
> Hello everyone
>
> >From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
> >Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> >To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> >Subject: Re: MD immoral irony?????
> >Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:51:11 -0700
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >According to the MOQ, does math exist at the bio level? I suggest
> >that math came about when someone put an apple on a table and said
> >"This represents ONEness. Then placed another apple on the table and
> >said "This is TWOness." Then a peach and an orange were placed
> >together on the table, and someone said "These also represent
> >TWOness; TWOness is what these have in common with these", pointing
> >to the pair of apples. Etc...
> >
> >I suggest "race" comes about in the same way. A person takes a
> >particular set of human alleles together and says "This represents an
> >African." A different set is pointed out, and called "Caucasian." A
> >third set represents an "Aborigine."
> >
> >I think these distinctions are abitrary human distinctions that have
> >no meaning at the bio level, just as math has no meaning there.
> >These are human conventions. Just imagine the bio level BEFORE the
> >human social level was laid upon it. Did race exist then?
>
> Hi Mark
>
> During the work on LC I questioned Mr. Pirsig about annotation #68 and he
> replied:
>
> RMP: Traditionally this is the meaning of free will. But the MOQ can argue
> that free will exists
> at all levels with increasing freedom to make choices as one ascends the
> levels. At the
> lowest inorganic level the freedom is so small that it can be said that
> nature follows laws
> but the quantum theory shows that within the laws the freedom is still
> there. I remember a
> physicist telling me that according to quantum theory all the molecules of
> air in a room
> could of their own free will move to one side, suffocating someone
standing
> on the other
> side, but the probability of this happening is so small no one need ever
> worry about it.
> DG:
> It sounds as if the physicist who told you that believes that there really
> are molecules "out
> there" floating around in the room. I guess if he didn't he wouldn't be
much
> of a physicist
> though, right?
> RMP:
> I think he might have trouble in his professional organizations if he
talked
> too much
> about it, and thus be disregarded professionally. However, physicists are
> the most open-minded
> people I have met with regard to metaphysics because their overall
> theoretical.understanding has been is such a disarray since the 19th
> century. However when you are
> working in the laboratory day after day, it's silly to have to remind
> yourself every minute
> that what you are working with are ideas. "Objects" are a great shorthand
> for stable
> collections of ideas, and reduce the mental workload.
> ------------------------
>
> It may well be that there are no genes or DNA at the biological level but
it
> is equally true that the researchers working in these fields are working
> with "something" and genes and DNA are a great shorthand for the stable
> collection of ideas they represent. They are concepts. I'm pretty sure I
> said that already but...
>
> >
> >Anyway, why doesn't someone just email Pirsig and ask him?
> >
>
> I think he's answered the question.
>
> Dan
>
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