From: Dan Glover (daneglover@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue Jun 29 2004 - 03:32:12 BST
Hello everyone
>From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: Re: MD immoral irony?????
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:51:11 -0700
>
>Hi all,
>
>According to the MOQ, does math exist at the bio level? I suggest
>that math came about when someone put an apple on a table and said
>"This represents ONEness. Then placed another apple on the table and
>said "This is TWOness." Then a peach and an orange were placed
>together on the table, and someone said "These also represent
>TWOness; TWOness is what these have in common with these", pointing
>to the pair of apples. Etc...
>
>I suggest "race" comes about in the same way. A person takes a
>particular set of human alleles together and says "This represents an
>African." A different set is pointed out, and called "Caucasian." A
>third set represents an "Aborigine."
>
>I think these distinctions are abitrary human distinctions that have
>no meaning at the bio level, just as math has no meaning there.
>These are human conventions. Just imagine the bio level BEFORE the
>human social level was laid upon it. Did race exist then?
Hi Mark
During the work on LC I questioned Mr. Pirsig about annotation #68 and he
replied:
RMP: Traditionally this is the meaning of free will. But the MOQ can argue
that free will exists
at all levels with increasing freedom to make choices as one ascends the
levels. At the
lowest inorganic level the freedom is so small that it can be said that
nature follows laws
but the quantum theory shows that within the laws the freedom is still
there. I remember a
physicist telling me that according to quantum theory all the molecules of
air in a room
could of their own free will move to one side, suffocating someone standing
on the other
side, but the probability of this happening is so small no one need ever
worry about it.
DG:
It sounds as if the physicist who told you that believes that there really
are molecules “out
there” floating around in the room. I guess if he didn’t he wouldn’t be much
of a physicist
though, right?
RMP:
I think he might have trouble in his professional organizations if he talked
too much
about it, and thus be disregarded professionally. However, physicists are
the most open-minded
people I have met with regard to metaphysics because their overall
theoretical.understanding has been is such a disarray since the 19th
century. However when you are
working in the laboratory day after day, it’s silly to have to remind
yourself every minute
that what you are working with are ideas. “Objects” are a great shorthand
for stable
collections of ideas, and reduce the mental workload.
------------------------
It may well be that there are no genes or DNA at the biological level but it
is equally true that the researchers working in these fields are working
with "something" and genes and DNA are a great shorthand for the stable
collection of ideas they represent. They are concepts. I'm pretty sure I
said that already but...
>
>Anyway, why doesn't someone just email Pirsig and ask him?
>
I think he's answered the question.
Dan
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