From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sat Jul 10 2004 - 22:06:43 BST
Mark said: This is why I spend
considerable time agitating for different ideas about how societies
might be organized
Hi Mark
What sort of things do you find it worthwhile
doing? Any particular groups, etc?
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Spam] RE: MD the metaphysics of free-enterprise
> Hi Dan, and all,
>
> On 9 Jul 2004 at 12:00, Dan Glover wrote:
> >Of course there are. But right now I'm having difficulty trying to
> >come up with one or two. Perhaps you could outline a few reasons.
> And
> >that job offer from Microsoft doesn't count!
> >
> >msh says:
> >I thought I already did. In our current system, someone might make
> >a moral choice to avoid the exploitation of others by renting
> herself
> >for wages. Or, maybe, by starting a business with herself as the
> >sole employee.
>
> dan:
> Your answers before seem a bit specious which is why I asked again.
> The first, avoiding exploition of others, is impossible in our
> current society, IMO, unless you happen to be a butterfly or
> Pollyanna. The second is not working for someone else, it's working
> for yourself.
>
> msh says:
> You're right, in our current society. This is why I spend
> considerable time agitating for different ideas about how societies
> might be organized. In THIS society, I guess my goal has been
> minimal exploitation.
>
> BTW, I don't want to give the impression that I'm against small
> business. In fact, IMO, the world would be a far better, and more
> interesting place if, instead of a McDonald's on every corner, we had
> some mom and pop flipping burgers. The food would almost certainly
> be better, and the atmosphere of higher quality as well. It was like
> that once: the corner grocery, not Mega-Foods.
>
> >msh says:
> >Well, if you stay you starve, if you move you have a chance: Not
> >quite a gun to the head, but...
> >
> >BTW, this is exactly the way it's intended to work. Arlo's example
> >of Coca Cola in Tijuana, as well as his discussion of the Eco-South
> >in general, is well worth thinking about.
>
> dan:
> Who is behind this conspiracy? The CEO of Coke? All the CEO's of all
> the corporations who have moved to the eco-south? Who intends things
> to work that way? Sounds to me like they might all get together and
> conspire to conspire.
>
> msh says:
> Oops... the conspiracy theory. What corporations do to maximize
> profits is the farthest thing from conspiracy. They don't need to
> "conspire" to do it; it's the natural and inevitable end-result of
> activity whose sole goal is profit-maximization. The best way to
> maximize profits is to minimize labor costs; and a great way to
> minimize labor costs is to keep huge segments of a population so poor
> and desperate that they will be willing to work for next to nothing.
> And HOW do corporations cause this? By using wealth to influence
> government policy. This might be domestic policy resulting in
> inadequate or non-existent health care, education, housing, minimum
> wage; it might be economic policy such as NAFTA; or it might be
> foreign adventurism in pursuit of markets, natural resources, and
> cheap labor.
>
> So, in Guatemala in 1954, when the democratically elected government
> decided to buy back its land from United Fruit (at the price quoted
> by UF for tax purposes), so that the land might be used to lift the
> standard of living for Guatemala's citizens, UF freaks out and the
> next thing you know the democratically elected government of
> Guatemala is overthrown by an invasion force of CIA trained
> mercenaries and four American fighter planes flown by American
> pilots. Colonel Carlos Castillo Armas, the puppet put into power,
> gave the land back to UF, abolished taxes on interest and dividends
> to American investors, and jailed thousands of political critics.
> There are a dozen similar incidents in the Eco-South alone. I can
> provide lots of details to anyone who's interested.
>
> dan:
> I think you are failing to see the big picture. You're thinking short
> term, not long term. There's an old house I bought a number of years
> ago in a poor and violent neighborhood. It sits on a busy avenue that
> leads to what was then a new shopping mall. All those cars going to
> the mall don't just drive by, they bring something to the community
> it didn't have before. I guess you could call it "hope" for lack of a
> better word. I sold the house early this year at a very handsome
> profit as the property values have skyrocketed in the old
> neighborhood.
>
> msh says:
> Well, I spend a lot of time thinking and writing about the big
> picture, but I guess I could be missing it.
>
> Anyway, thanks for your comments.
>
> Best,
> Mark
> --
> InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
> Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
> Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com
>
> "Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but this flash is
> everything." -- Henri Poincare'
>
>
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archives:
> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> Nov '02 Onward -
http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun Jul 11 2004 - 04:02:59 BST