From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Fri Jul 09 2004 - 20:23:43 BST
Hi Dan, and all,
On 9 Jul 2004 at 12:00, Dan Glover wrote:
>Of course there are. But right now I'm having difficulty trying to
>come up with one or two. Perhaps you could outline a few reasons.
And
>that job offer from Microsoft doesn't count!
>
>msh says:
>I thought I already did. In our current system, someone might make
>a moral choice to avoid the exploitation of others by renting
herself
>for wages. Or, maybe, by starting a business with herself as the
>sole employee.
dan:
Your answers before seem a bit specious which is why I asked again.
The first, avoiding exploition of others, is impossible in our
current society, IMO, unless you happen to be a butterfly or
Pollyanna. The second is not working for someone else, it's working
for yourself.
msh says:
You're right, in our current society. This is why I spend
considerable time agitating for different ideas about how societies
might be organized. In THIS society, I guess my goal has been
minimal exploitation.
BTW, I don't want to give the impression that I'm against small
business. In fact, IMO, the world would be a far better, and more
interesting place if, instead of a McDonald's on every corner, we had
some mom and pop flipping burgers. The food would almost certainly
be better, and the atmosphere of higher quality as well. It was like
that once: the corner grocery, not Mega-Foods.
>msh says:
>Well, if you stay you starve, if you move you have a chance: Not
>quite a gun to the head, but...
>
>BTW, this is exactly the way it's intended to work. Arlo's example
>of Coca Cola in Tijuana, as well as his discussion of the Eco-South
>in general, is well worth thinking about.
dan:
Who is behind this conspiracy? The CEO of Coke? All the CEO's of all
the corporations who have moved to the eco-south? Who intends things
to work that way? Sounds to me like they might all get together and
conspire to conspire.
msh says:
Oops... the conspiracy theory. What corporations do to maximize
profits is the farthest thing from conspiracy. They don't need to
"conspire" to do it; it's the natural and inevitable end-result of
activity whose sole goal is profit-maximization. The best way to
maximize profits is to minimize labor costs; and a great way to
minimize labor costs is to keep huge segments of a population so poor
and desperate that they will be willing to work for next to nothing.
And HOW do corporations cause this? By using wealth to influence
government policy. This might be domestic policy resulting in
inadequate or non-existent health care, education, housing, minimum
wage; it might be economic policy such as NAFTA; or it might be
foreign adventurism in pursuit of markets, natural resources, and
cheap labor.
So, in Guatemala in 1954, when the democratically elected government
decided to buy back its land from United Fruit (at the price quoted
by UF for tax purposes), so that the land might be used to lift the
standard of living for Guatemala's citizens, UF freaks out and the
next thing you know the democratically elected government of
Guatemala is overthrown by an invasion force of CIA trained
mercenaries and four American fighter planes flown by American
pilots. Colonel Carlos Castillo Armas, the puppet put into power,
gave the land back to UF, abolished taxes on interest and dividends
to American investors, and jailed thousands of political critics.
There are a dozen similar incidents in the Eco-South alone. I can
provide lots of details to anyone who's interested.
dan:
I think you are failing to see the big picture. You're thinking short
term, not long term. There's an old house I bought a number of years
ago in a poor and violent neighborhood. It sits on a busy avenue that
leads to what was then a new shopping mall. All those cars going to
the mall don't just drive by, they bring something to the community
it didn't have before. I guess you could call it "hope" for lack of a
better word. I sold the house early this year at a very handsome
profit as the property values have skyrocketed in the old
neighborhood.
msh says:
Well, I spend a lot of time thinking and writing about the big
picture, but I guess I could be missing it.
Anyway, thanks for your comments.
Best,
Mark
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