From: Elizabeth Graves (libertytowercranes@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Jul 11 2004 - 08:21:52 BST
ok i need a moral decision on this, my husband and i own a business it has
been very successful over the past year and i am miserable. i think and my
husband agrees that we should scale back and get to a place again that i
would recognize him in a police line up. hypothesizing is great but in the
real world there are moral dilemmas that effect real people other than
myself I understand the dychotomy but its the age old problem of my needs
versus the common good. and if i sell my needs out how am i taking care of
the common good. this may be way basic for you guys but id like some
input(hey at least its not about sex)
>From: "Arlo J. Bensinger" <ajb102@psu.edu>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: Re: MD the metaphysics of free-enterprise
>Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 02:30:58 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Hi Dan,
>
>
> > Thank you for taking your time to explain your position. My point is
>more
> > along the lines of the road to hell is paved with good intentions. While
>a
> > Christian might, I'm not sure a Buddhist would agree with you that doing
> > good is something to be proud of. It's just the natural order of things.
> > Addtionally, money is not what drove Mr. Fuller to comtemplate suicide.
>It
> > was the loss of his dreams.
> >
>
>I know what you are saying, Dan. And I agree with Pirsig, and Platt, that
>although more "moral", socialism- as it was instantiated- smothered DQ with
>"good intentions".
>
>But I do not think that is reason to remove "good" from a bottom-up
>discussion
>of improving modern captitalism. That is, although "good" is problamatic
>when
>imposed top-down, it is just as important in structuring the dialogue
>bottom-up. Here I think I am full agreement with Pirsig.
>
>I'm unsure as to the details of Fuller's life. Could he not have "done
>good" and
>still been profitable enough to go on? I know "friends of friends" that
>volunteer their labor and materials to help poor families build homes. At
>the
>same time, they stay in business, and treat their employees (who are in
>some
>cases their old classmates) decently. The decision they make, consciously,
>is
>that "maximizing their profits at all costs" is secondary to doing
>community
>work. Many small, local businesses do this. Certainly there is room for
>"doing
>good" and staying in business?
>
>
> > I think one alternative could be called middle class living. Mexico is
>the
> > 10th largest economy in the world. As it grows even larger, eventually
>the
> > factories doing business there will be forced to raise wages and
>something
> > like the middle class that we have here in the US will emerge.
>
>I appreciate your optimism here. I'm going to get back to you on this as it
>will
>entail a longer writing than I am able to do at this late hour.
>
>
> > Yet human nature seems to dictate that there will always be inequality.
>
>Agreed.
>
> Some
> > want more than others. A Buddhist would say they are trapped in the
>temporal
> > materialism that seems to run rampant these days.
> >
>
>How far we go with "wanting" to pursue material objects (including money)
>is a
>personal, and should be- spiritual decision. How far I am able to hurt,
>enslave
>or exploit others in pursuing my material desires is just what we are
>talking
>about here.
>
>
> > I happened to read an article about a fellow
>http://www.golfmongolia.com/
> > who's golfing across Mongolia. He mentions how poor the people are there
>and
> > yet how happy.
>
>Golfing across Mongolia?! How interesting. I will definately check this one
>out.
>By the way, if you've not read "Investment Biker", I'd recommend it to you.
>I
>disagreed with the author (Jim Rogers) in many cases, but given your
>inclinations I think you'd find it a worthwhile read. In IB, Jim and his
>girlfriend Tabitha tour the world on some BMW machines, and along the way
>talk
>economics. Anyways...
>
>I bet (and I'll read the article tomorrow) they are happy because they are
>involved in their own labor (likely agricultural), are able to participate
>in
>community and local-cultural events, and feel like valuable contributors to
>their local communities. Certainly I would agree that citizens of agrarian
>cultures could be quite happy. Even without accumulating wealth.
>
>So perhaps the problem with Coke doing business in Mexico
> > isn't a matter of just money. Perhaps there are other factors to
>consider.
>
>As I've suggested, ownership of one's labor and/or connection between one's
>labor activity and product, being a valued contributor to one's local
>community, through physical and/or intellectual labor, pride of one's work
>and
>involvement in one's community, and a few to consider.
>
>All these things are important to consider when pondering Mongolia, Tijuana
>or
>any other area.
>
> >
> > I know you weren't indicating that I wasn't reading your posts. It just
> > seemed to me that you and others aren't treating another member of the
>forum
> > with the respect he deserves. I'm not sure what progress you hope to
>make
> > but good luck and thank you for sharing your thoughts.
> >
>
>The only frustration I've had in the dialogue with Platt has been that many
>things I've re-articulated across many posts seem to ignored (I've
>mentioned
>several). I don't think I've disrespected him, and if I have then I
>publically
>apologize. I enjoy the disagreements, it helps me solidify my thoughts and
>opens my thinking to new ideas. But having to reclarify basic positions
>(favoring free-markets, supporting wages being tied to labor practices,
>earning
>money is ok it's just not the highest good, balance not socially regulated
>uniformity...) because these positions did not seem to fall neatly into a
>"modern capitalism" versus "evil" dichotomy was becoming unenjoyable. The
>complete recasting of my comments on the Monomyth was about as far as I
>could
>taket the reclarifying. It was frustration, not disrespect. At least it was
>intended as such.
>
>Arlo
>
>
>
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