From: Sriram Subramaniam (sriram_moq@yahoo.com)
Date: Sun Jul 11 2004 - 02:23:25 BST
Hello Dan,
Here is the full text of the three paragraphs you requested starting on page 348 of the 1992 Bantam paperback edition of Lila:
"Back in the fifites and sixties Phaedrus had shared this confusion of biological quality and Dynamic Quality, but the Metaphysics of Quality seemed to help clear it up. When biological quality and Dynamic Quality are confused the result isn't an increase in Dynamic Quality. It's an extremely destructive form of degeneracy of the sort seen in the Manson murders, the Jonestown madness, and the increase of crime and drug addiction throughout the country. In the early seventies, as people began to see this, they
dropped away from the movement, and the Hippie revolution, like the intellectual revolution of the twenties, became a moral rebellion that failed."
"Today, it seemed to Phaedrus, the overall picture is one of moral movements gone bankrupt. Just as the intellectual revolution undermined social patterns, the Hippies undermined both static and intellectual patterns. Nothing better has been introduced to replace them. The result has been a drop in both social and intellectual quality. In the United States the national intelligence level shown in SAT scores has gone down. Organized crime has grown more powerful and more sinister. Urban ghettos have grown
larger and more dangerous. The end of the twentieth century in America seems to be an intellectual, social, and economic rust-belt, a whole society that has given up on Dynamic improvement and is slowly trying to slip back to Victorianism, the last static ratchet-latch. More Dynamic foreign cultures are overtaking it and actually invading it because it's now incapable of competing. What's coming out of the urban slums, where old Victorian social moral codes are almost
completely destroyed, isn't any new paradise the revolutionaries hoped for, but a reversion to rule by terror, violence and gang death--the old biological might-makes-right morality of prehistoric brigandage that primitive societies were set up to overcome."
"Phaedrus looked at the glass window across the hotel room and at the darkness beyond it. The question that seemed to grow in his mind every time he came back to New York was: Is this city going to survive or isn't it? It's always had social problems, and it's always survived them, and somehow it's always been strengthened by them, and maybe that will happen again. But this time the odds didn't look bright. He remembered the title Rudyard Kipling had used for Calcutta back in Victorian times, 'The City of
Dreadful Night.' That's what this city was becoming."
Thanks for your interest...
Regards,
--- Sriram
Dan Glover <daneglover@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hello everyone
>From: Sriram Subramaniam
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: MD Possible incorrect sentence in Lila
>Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 10:02:39 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Hello,
>
>I've been reading and re-reading Lila for many years now, and I've noticed
>there is a sentence which I think is phrased incorrectly, and I was
>wondering if anyone else had any thoughts about it. In chapter 24, near
>the bottom of page 348 of my Bantam paperback edition, the statement
>appears: "Just as the intellectual revolution undermined social patterns,
>the Hippies undermined both static and intellectual patterns." I think
>this statement is phrased incorrectly. The correct statement should read:
>"...the Hippies undermined both social and intellectual patterns." Since
>intellectual patterns are static patterns, it doesn't make sense to say,
>"both static and intellectual patterns." It would be like saying, "rabies
>affects both mammals and dogs." Since dogs are mammals, the statement is
>overly redundant. In general, it is logically incorrect to say "both x and
>y" when y is a subset of x.
>
>Considering what is said earlier regarding the confusion of biological
>quality and Dynamic Quality that the Hippies had such as the statement,
>"The Hippie rejection of social and intellectual patterns left just two
>directions to go: toward biological quality and toward Dynamic Quality,"
>and also later in this paragraph such as the statement, "The result has
>been a drop in both social and intellectual quality," I think it should
>have been written that the Hippies undermined both social and intellectual
>patterns.
Hi Sriram
Good to hear from you! I thought I had my house sold and was suppose to
close on June 30 but the deal fell through. Now all my stuff is in storage
and I'm living in my empty house with my laptop, a kitchen table, a lawn
chair and a mattress. Since I don't have my copy of LILA to refer to could
you please send the paragraph this sentence is from, as well as the
preceding and following paragraphs? I think you're right but I'd just like
to check on the context.
>
>I don't know if any future editions of Lila are planned, but if so,
>hopefully this minor error can be fixed. Possibly if any one is in
>correspondence with Mr. Pirsig or his publisher, this can be brought to his
>attention if not already done so.
Sounds like a plan to me.
Thank you for sharing your find.
Dan
_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŽ
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
--0-1478324900-1089509005=:77094
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<DIV>Hello Dan,</DIV>
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5
: Sun Jul 11 2004 - 11:55:45 BST
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Here is the full text of the three paragraphs you requested starting on page 348 of the 1992 Bantam paperback edition of Lila:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Back in the fifites and sixties Phaedrus had shared this confusion of biological quality and Dynamic Quality, but the Metaphysics of Quality seemed to help clear it up. When biological quality and Dynamic Quality are confused the result isn't an increase in Dynamic Quality. It's an extremely destructive form of degeneracy of the sort seen in the Manson murders, the Jonestown madness, and the increase of crime and drug addiction throughout the country. In the early seventies, as people
began to see this, they dropped away from the movement, and the Hippie revolution, like the intellectual revolution of the twenties, became a moral rebellion that failed."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Today, it seemed to Phaedrus, the overall picture is one of moral movements gone bankrupt. Just as the intellectual revolution undermined social patterns, the Hippies undermined both static and intellectual patterns. Nothing better has been introduced to replace them. The result has been a drop in both social and intellectual quality. In the United States the national intelligence level shown in SAT scores has gone down. Organized crime has grown more powerful and more
sinister. Urban ghettos have grown larger and more dangerous. The end of the twentieth century in America seems to be an intellectual, social, and economic rust-belt, a whole society that has given up on Dynamic improvement and is slowly trying to slip back to Victorianism, the last static ratchet-latch. More Dynamic foreign cultures are overtaking it and actually invading it because it's now incapable of competing. What's coming out of the urban slums, where
old Victorian social moral codes are almost completely destroyed, isn't any new paradise the revolutionaries hoped for, but a reversion to rule by terror, violence and gang death--the old biological might-makes-right morality of prehistoric brigandage that primitive societies were set up to overcome."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Phaedrus looked at the glass window across the hotel room and at the darkness beyond it. The question that seemed to grow in his mind every time he came back to New York was: Is this city going to survive or isn't it? It's always had social problems, and it's always survived them, and somehow it's always been strengthened by them, and maybe that will happen again. But this time the odds didn't look bright. He remembered the title Rudyard Kipling had used for Calcutta back in
Victorian times, 'The City of Dreadful Night.' That's what this city was becoming."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for your interest... </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--- Sriram<BR><BR><B><I>Dan Glover <daneglover@hotmail.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Hello everyone<BR><BR>>From: Sriram Subramaniam <SRIRAM_MOQ@YAHOO.COM><BR>>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org<BR>>To: moq_discuss@moq.org<BR>>Subject: MD Possible incorrect sentence in Lila<BR>>Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 10:02:39 -0700 (PDT)<BR>><BR>>Hello,<BR>><BR>>I've been reading and re-reading Lila for many years now, and I've noticed <BR>>there is a sentence which I think is phrased
incorrectly, and I was <BR>>wondering if anyone else had any thoughts about it. In chapter 24, near <BR>>the bottom of page 348 of my Bantam paperback edition, the statement <BR>>appears: "Just as the intellectual revolution undermined social patterns, <BR>>the Hippies undermined both static and intellectual patterns." I think <BR>>this statement is phrased incorrectly. The correct statement should read: <BR>>"...the Hippies undermined both social and
intellectual patterns." Since <BR>>intellectual patterns are static patterns, it doesn't make sense to say, <BR>>"both static and intellectual patterns." It would be like saying, "rabies <BR>>affects both mammals and dogs." Since dogs are mammals, the statement is <BR>>overly redundant. In general, it is logically incorrect to say "both x and <BR>>y" when y is a subset of x.<BR>><BR>>Considering what is said earlier regarding the confusion of biological <BR>>quality and Dynamic Quality
that the Hippies had such as the statement, <BR>>"The Hippie rejection of social and intellectual patterns left just two <BR>>directions to go: toward biological quality and toward Dynamic Quality," <BR>>and also later in this paragraph such as the statement, "The result has <BR>>been a drop in both social and intellectual quality," I think it should <BR>>have been written that the Hippies undermined both social and intellectual <BR>>patterns.<BR><BR>Hi
Sriram<BR><BR>Good to hear from you! I thought I had my house sold and was suppose to <BR>close on June 30 but the deal fell through. Now all my stuff is in storage <BR>and I'm living in my empty house with my laptop, a kitchen table, a lawn <BR>chair and a mattress. Since I don't have my copy of LILA to refer to could <BR>you please send the paragraph this sentence is from, as well as the <BR>preceding and following paragraphs? I think you're right but I'd just like <BR>to check on the
context.<BR><BR>><BR>>I don't know if any future editions of Lila are planned, but if so, <BR>>hopefully this minor error can be fixed. Possibly if any one is in <BR>>correspondence with Mr. Pirsig or his publisher, this can be brought to his <BR>>attention if not already done so.<BR><BR>Sounds like a plan to me.<BR><BR>Thank you for sharing your find.<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer
virus scan from McAfeeŽ <BR>Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/mobile/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo">Take Yahoo! Mail with you!</a> Get it on your mobile phone.
--0-1478324900-1089509005=:77094--
------- End of forwarded message -------
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html