From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Tue Jul 13 2004 - 14:51:26 BST
Hi Paul,
> Platt said:
> > Please explain how it's possible for there to be experience without an
> > experiencer. Are we into a chicken/egg problem here?
>
> Paul:
> This is fundamental to the MOQ, which Pirsig describes as "pure
> empiricism." Your question emanates directly from the subject-object
> metaphysical assumption that, before anything else, there has to be a
> subject capable of experiencing objects, or phenomena. The MOQ answer is
> that experience, phenomena, i.e. Quality, is the *source* of both the
> subject and the object. The experience creates the experiencer and the
> experienced!
When you say "the experience creates the experiencer and the experienced"
it comes across like a koan which, in the Western world, goes over like a
lead balloon. I'm not arguing that you are wrong in interpreting the MOQ.
I'm trying to make the point, however, that even in Pirsig's description
of "pure experience," such as the hot-stove example, there's always the
presupposition of an experiencer present.
To me, this paradox (along with many others) suggests there are limits to
logic and rationality, or as Paul Davies said, "But in the end a rational
explanation for the world in the sense of a closed and complete system of
logical truths is almost certainly impossible. We are barred from ultimate
knowledge, from ultimate explanation, by the very rules of reasoning that
prompt us to seek an explanation in the first place. If we wish to
progress beyond, we have to embrace a different concept of 'understanding'
from that or rational explanation."
As you know, my idea for a "different understanding" relates to our
intuitive attraction to "beauty."
Anyway, thanks much for your reply. I agree that you've nailed the MOQ
fundamental, but I think that fundamental can also be expressed as a
"principle of rightness."
.
Best,
Platt
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue Jul 13 2004 - 15:42:08 BST