From: Joseph Maurer (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu Jul 29 2004 - 19:48:30 BST
Johnny said:
I wonder what [Pirsig] means by "mind"? Don't you think that the fourth
level has to be somehow above and dependent on the third level? How is
mind higher or dependent on society?
Paul:
I'll try to provide an answer to this with something I've been thinking
about. I haven't refined this yet, so take it as a work in progress.
Pirsig defines the intellectual level as the skilled manipulation of
abstract symbols that stand for patterns of experience. The dependence
on society may be seen if you consider that a symbol, in its strictest
sense, stands for something else by *convention* and not by
*resemblance*. A symbol by resemblance is more correctly termed an
analog. Analogs include things such as pictures and sounds that
represent something to the degree that they resemble sensory experience.
As such, the cave paintings at Lascaux, for example, are not evidence of
intellect.
Hi Paul Johnny and all,
When I see the word 'abstract' I shudder a bit. I was taught that the mind
'abstracts' the essence from the image. The basis for SOM is the division of
existence into real existence and intentional existence, objective
subjective.
I do not think that Pirsig saw the intellectual level as the "mind". The
degenerate mystical division of everything into dynamic and static quality
accepts a hierarchical division for evolution. Evolution is the basis of
morality. Since evolution proceeds from the inorganic level, it would seem,
following Pirsig's insight that all levels are subdivided into organic,
social and intellectual levels. If I want to identify the patterns in each
of the levels I would use a degenerate mystical description of the dynamic
Quality of each level. Is gravity the degenerate dynamic Quality of the
inorganic level? If so then gravity is divided into organic, social and
intellectual gravity to make evolution possible. Is purpose (the need to
eat) the degenerate dynamic of the organic order, existence (order) the
degenerate dynamic of the social order, and unfinished (s/o) the degenerate
dynamic of the intellectual order? This is the way I see everything
depending on everything else.
Joe
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