Mary and Andy (and Platt),
Mary, I agree with you about the SOM problem in Western Science and in our
intellectual level. I also agree that Pirsig pretty much concentrated upon
the Western intellectual level. The reason is because it is the most clear
example of a well developed intellectual level (even here just becoming
dominant in the last century.)
However, your comment that this doesn't mean those that didn't develop an
intellectual level are "Qualitatively inferior," directly contradicts the Ch
24 Pirsig quote I provided last weekend to Andy...
"Cultures can be graded and judged morally according to their
contribution to the evolution of life... and a culture that supports the
dominance of intellectual values over social values is absolutely superior to
one that does not."
On the page preceding this quote he expresses his disdain for cultural
relativism, and he blames this foolishness on the defect in Western
Intellectual patterns. "...cultural relativism reinforces this [that it is
immoral to speak against cultural characteristics]. It says you cannot judge
one culture in terms of the values of another... That is the paralysis." He
then deliberately and specifically contrasts the MOQ to this and goes into
his grading/judging of cultures based upon their support and dominance of
intellectual values.
To be frank, I believe that you are missing (or disagreeing with) a central
concept of the MOQ and I suspect you may even be falling victim to the very
SOM/cultural relativism problem that Pirsig criticizes.
For the record, I believe that Pirsig would evaluate a society that combined
science and intellectual achievement with recognition of morality and a
pursuit of the dynamic as the highest of all. And considering the obvious
defect in Western Intellect, it may need to be another culture that cracks
this code. But until then...
As for Andy, when you write "To say we have advanced in quality over [hunter
gatherers] is not supported by the evidence and is ethnocentric," you fall
right into the problem that Pirsig points out (in the same paragraph as my
above quote) of confusing cultural and genetic values. Furthermore, I have
clearly showed that modern societies deliver substantially more to the
"contribution of the evolution of life" than hunter/gatherers (unless one
considers losing half of all children before the age of 5, having a short
life span, being victim to disease and infection, likely to die of murder or
warfare, etc as high quality).
Mary and Andy, it is fine for us to disagree with Pirsig (I do in many ways).
But I don't think it is right to twist his philosophy around so that it says
what we want to believe even though it is completely contrary to what he has
written. I guess we are all guilty of this to an extent, but we should
probably try to gaurd against it and to point it out when we see it. (again,
I have been as guilty as any of us, and if I am incorrect in my accusation
here, I apologize in advance).
Rog
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