>===== Original Message From moq_discuss@moq.org =====
>> PIRSIG:
>> The hippies had in mind something that they wanted, and were calling it
>> "freedom," but in the final analysis "freedom" is a purely negative goal.
>It
>> just says something is bad."
>
>RICK:
> I concur with the notion that freedom, in a sense, is a transitory goal.
>One doesn't strive to be "free". One strives to be "free from" something.
>Of course, this is sort of just a semantic point. For 'Freedom' as positive
>goal is 'Liberty' - A state in which one can act, speak and think as they
>choose.
> Think of the good ole' USA. We won our revolution and now we are 'free'
>from England and its monarchy [freedom as a negative goal]. However,
>struggles over our 'liberties' (-i.e. What we can write, say, do, sell, buy,
>wear, see, hear, smoke, drink, eat-) are eternal [freedom as a positive
>goal--- liberty]. Pirsig was right that the hippies had in mind something
>that they wanted and we're calling it 'freedom'... But I believe what they
>were seeking was a maximum of personal 'Liberty'
Erin: Thanks for your help in trying to figure out why Pirsig said that.
I hadn't thought of it quite that same way. I had thought it might have been
similar to when he was describing Kerouac and the Beat generation conception
of zen and how it was different from the East.
Kind of like this quote:
We have confused the free with the free and easy.
~ Adlai E. Stevenson ~
>RICK
>(Actually, I just figured that if Marco's 4 'rules' summed up the levels,
>then the whole system could be summed up with something like.. "Better SQ
>than Chaos, Better DQ than SQ." It was more tongue-in-cheek than serious.)
>
>
>ERIN: oops,sorry
It's all good,
Erin
P.S. I had just picked up this book by Chadwick "Thank you and Ok: An American
Zen Failure in Japan" about a Texan living in Japan. I just noticed today
that Pirsig is quoted on the back. He wrote "Asked why Zen was brought from
India to China, master Zhao Zhou replied, 'The oak tree in the garden' This
is exactly what Chadwick gives us here - no grand sweeping statements about
the 'real' nature of Zen or Japan, just specific experience rendered with a
peculiar intensity. The writing is excellent. The artistic integrity is the
very finest" I had got it because it looked funny but now I that I saw how
the Big Kahuna liked it I am really looking forward to reading it.
Anybody heard of it?
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