From: Erin N. (enoonan@kent.edu)
Date: Sun Nov 17 2002 - 22:54:52 GMT
>> p.229
>"At this moment, asleep, "Lila" doesn't exist anymore then a
>program exists when a computer is switched off. The intelligence
>of her cells had switched Lila off for the night, exactly
>the way a hardware switch turns off a computer program."
>
JOE:I verymuch would like to have a hardware switch like a computer has to
turn
off my program while asleep!
ERIN: So you are arguing "joe" is up an running while
you are asleep?
JOE:I think the Author was expressing a universal
want in the character
"Lila."
ERIN: which is...
JOE: Balance that allows randomness to function, is a
better switch than off/on. Sleep comes as a 'valued new pattern.' (I
apologize for the plagarism, but I so admire your formulation, Maggie.)
ERIN: explain the difference of balance while you
are awake and balance while you are asleep...or
are you arguing there is no difference?
DMB: Its interesting that the author attributes a similar "off" switch during
sex
>too.
ERIN: so you think "DMB" can be turned off during sex and while
sleeping?
DMB:(The quote is from the chapter [15] where they do "it".) He watches it
>happen to him. He tries to stay in the twilight between sleep and
>wakefulness in order to ponder the strange power of sex. Bottom of the
>ocean. She's that girl on the streetcar. The one who has always been judging
>him, for millions of years. These forces have nothing to do with you or your
>"real" identity. They swallow your identity. Obliterate it for a time.
>Orgasms are like that too. Poof, you're gone.
Erin: yeah part of my interest in this quote is the me-you relation
he's playing with throughout the chapter.
PETER:>I feel here, biological patterns are going about there business and
have
>dominated the social and intellectual aspects of the river of patterns that
>may be said to constitute Lila. When Lila dies the Inorganic patterns of
>quarks, protons, electrons, etc. will go about their business. While asleep
>the Biological Lila goes about its business. At different times, different
>aspects of patterning dominate as they swirl around a particular Dynamic
>vortex in the flowing stream of reality.
>
Erin: well its argued that different patterns
are dominating awhile awake too.
So what is the difference between bio dominating
while awake and dominating while asleep?
PATRICK: I wonder what your specific question is.
Erin: well some of these points touched upon it...
its more of trying to clear up what this means..
I will sum it up my question the end of this post.
PATRICK: How can the program Lila (or Phaedrus or Robert)
know the hardware?
"They
were the leaves of a tree and knew as little as these leaves, why their
cells that had created them or why they created them so similar." I
believe this is a Kantian thought: There are conditions that enable us
('I's) to be here, but we can't fully know these conditions, as a matter
of principle...
ERIN: yes this is getting at what I was interested in..
Pirsig is hinting at times these can be aware of each
other and in conflict..
PIRSIG:
says " That what he had seen that he was trying
to hang on to now, this confluence where the mental and the
biological patterns are both awake and aware of each other
and in conflict"
Okay I am a bad forum moderator because I am kind of
changing the quote I am interested in (its related to
the other quote but this one is getting at better what
I am intersted in)
I was intially interested in whether people thought
there was an "off" during sleep and any thoughts about
this in relation to time.
I was just sent a couple days ago a book by a friend that has part
of a theme at what I am interested in (kind of wierd huh)...it goes
into this idea of being "awaketime" "dreamtime" and
IN BETWEEN these two is "drivetime".
I'm not done with the book so can't give full description of
"drivetime".
But this is exactly what caught my eye about this quote.
This idea of on/off.
So the quote that gets more at what I am interested in is this
pg227 Chap 15
"Sometimes between sleep and waking there's a zone where
the mind gets a glimpse of old active subconscious worlds."
So I guess my question is what is this zone?
Somewhere between me/you, awake/asleep, on/off?
erin
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