RE: MD "Practical" application

From: Erin N. (enoonan@kent.edu)
Date: Sun Jan 05 2003 - 02:19:03 GMT

  • Next message: john williams: "Re: MD Reprint of "Confessions""

    Mari,
    I first just want to point out that I am not
    speaking for Pirsig. I don't know why he does what
    he does..just speculations.

    >Hi Erin,
    >> Thanks for your feedback. i'd like to ask a few questions.
    >
    >Can you explain "karmic garbage"?
    >"Concerns" can be a good thing.
    >Are you saying that there is a connection between "programs" and "plans" and
    >"karmic garbage"? Can MoQ.org be viewed as a "program" of sorts?
    >http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=program

    I am going to come back to this one in another post.
    I tried to write out my ideas about it when
    John and Wim were discussing something.
    So I will explain this more later and just want
    to say again they are just my personal speculations.

    > "Everybody's ideas of a
    >> good program is going to be different, depending
    >> on what you value."
    >And that means what? don't use something that obviously has Value and the
    >potentiality to make a difference in the world? Don't rally the wagons and
    >move "it" to another level where it effects changes in a collectively agreed
    >upon way???

    It obviously has value. To who--people who value it.
    Glenn has participated for how long...ask him
    if it has obviously has value. Glenn is very intelligent too.
    I think everybody can experience quality but
    am wondering if you need to be dominated by
    intellectual level to understand it.
    Maybe, maybe not.

    >>"MOQ works very well for me as a personal tool to
    >> understand how different people value different
    >> things and its all good." Nothing wrong with that Erin. Let your
    >conscience and values be your guide. That said, it doesn't mean there is no
    >Value in joining forces and making a difference beyond ones personal space.

    I am participating here. I also do other things that
    I don't care to list out. This 'moq cause' is not
    clear to me. I don't understand what you want.

    >>"> If Pirsig values freedom wouldn't it be contradictory
    >> to develop a program to tell people what to do."
    >Connecting the dots in this way, lends itself IMHO to convoluting the
    >picture: "If Pirsig values freedom wouldn't it be contradictory to develop a
    >program 'to tell people what to do'" to tell people what to do"? Where did
    >that come from? What about "being united" in conviction, aim, and intent?
    >"Give me a place to stand on, and I will move the earth."
    >Sometimes i think that responses to posts here in MoQdg sound like the
    >bickering by democrates at republicans and visa versa forgetting all the
    >while that first they are human, then countrymen and then politicans.

    I read in a previous post ( i don't think it was
    by you) that we don't have enough antagonists to
    Pirsig's work. Now I have to read why can't we all agree in
    your post.I am sorry but it seems this list is damned
    if we do agree and damned if we don't. Again what you want is not clear to me.

    i'm even awed at his insights! But
    >unlike other brillant minds that contribute to the knowedge base and then
    >follow through with personal partisipation Mr Pirsig dropped out and i don't
    >buy his explaination of why he leaves us alone. When Arthur Rimbaud did a
    >similar thing it was said that he commited artistic suicide. Didn't WJ Sidis
    >do the same thing; drop out?
    >i have been blessed to meet and talk with some of the people who i admire
    >and effected positive change in my life. i wish RMP was one of them!
    >

    Maybe everybody is not the same Mari.
    Maybe some people are meant to teaching and others in writing novels.
    I was struck by the image in a classroom where
    he sat silently freaking the students out.
    I read somewhere but can't remember the name
    of a buddhist term about somebody who refuses
    to teach. Not that teaching has no value but
    maybe its not for everyone. I don't agree with you with the hiding out
    part. My intuitions say its for his own
    moral reasons. Again I think it is wrong to tell a novelist
    he is not doing anything.
    Imagine after you put all the work into your
    play somebody coming up to you and
    asking so why have you been hiding out and
    not doing anything.
    Would you have felt the same need to
    get after Picasso of not having a program to
    unite the world?
    I think storytelling changes the world not
    plans or programs so yes I do think Pirsig
    is doing something and not hiding out.

    James Joyce--"silence, cunning, exile"

    Erin

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