From: Erin N. (enoonan@kent.edu)
Date: Mon Jan 06 2003 - 17:20:55 GMT
>===== Original Message From moq_discuss@moq.org =====
>Erin wrote:
>
>
>> Mari,
>> I first just want to point out that I am not
>> speaking for Pirsig. I don't know why he does what
>> he does..just speculations.
>>
>Mari: Do you think anyone here is "speaking for Pirsig"? Surely not his
>children from what i've seen so far.
No just wanted to point out that neither you nor
I know why he does what he does.
Not sure what you mean by his children part.
>> >Hi Erin,
>> >> Thanks for your feedback. i'd like to ask a few questions.
>> >
>> >Can you explain "karmic garbage"?
>> >"Concerns" can be a good thing.
>> >Are you saying that there is a connection between "programs" and "plans"
>and
>> >"karmic garbage"? Can MoQ.org be viewed as a "program" of sorts?
>> >http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=program
>>
>>
>> I am going to come back to this one in another post.
>> I tried to write out my ideas about it when
>> John and Wim were discussing something.
>> So I will explain this more later and just want
>> to say again they are just my personal speculations.
>
>Mari: Okay i'm looking forward to your response.
>
I still have to look for the post.
>> > "Everybody's ideas of a
>> >> good program is going to be different, depending
>> >> on what you value."
>>
>Mari: i'm reading your response line by line and as a whole then reading
>a few lines again thinking about your :" I don't understand what you want"
>you say that again 2 parapgraphs down. A small rush of thoughts come to
>mind....hopefully in short order that will be more clear to you and to
>others who may want to know as well as i do. i'm still sorting things out
>for the big picture. IN the mean time what i want is clear communication
>with you for this post. It seems that you take offense at my thoughts about
>RMP dropping out. i have no burning desire to convince you that i am right.
>It's simply my thoughts and feelings that make me say at times that he is
>not a very good parent if we can agree upon that metaphor since he's used it
>himself in referring to the MoQ.dg
>In responding to your first post which was a response to my ( i suppose this
>is a reflection in a sense of my "wants" ) post about finding a practical
>use of the MoQ philosophy and the abandonment of Daddio, you paraphrased
>what i was saying in such a way that it pulled the meaning out of whack. IN
>the paragraph below this you say: ">>"> If Pirsig values freedom wouldn't it
>be contradictory
>> >> to develop a program to tell people what to do" i wrote back wanting to
>know how you came to THAT conclusion that i wanted him to tell ME or others
>what to do. That's not i want. i would like him to be present. i'd like to
>ask him and not just the MoQ pundits questions about his books and
>philosophy. Furthermore i'm not convinced that by him hiding out equates to
>"freedom"....it might but it might also be reclusiveness, isolationism, who
>knows for sure? He didn't handle Rigels confrontation very well in Lila. He
>seemed shaken and thought about it a lot after it happened....he even seemed
>angry. Maybe he's affraid that there are a bunch of Rigels here and he won't
>be able to defend himself....imagine the riff between MoQers if that ever
>happened especially inlight of the posts over the last few days!!! Geeeeez!
>Can you imagine that? LOL
>
I don't get offended that you say he has doesn't participate here.
I am disagreeing that his reasons for not participating
should be assumed to be for negative reasons.
If you don't know what he does why do you
feel justified in assuming he's not doing anything.
He's just not doing what you want him to do.
I remember Pirsig saying something about how
he was afraid the group would be less dynamic if
he participated. The author's opinions could be distractive. (can't remember
exact phrasing,something like that).
I don't think he thinks himself as having the answers
and hiding out with them. He compared this group
to wilderness. I think he is encouraging us
to go into the wilderness on our own and not sitting
outside it waiting for him to go in and come back
with answers.
So you can assume he's not participating for
a negative reason (afraid of Rigels) and I just
want to point out thats not necessarily true.
>Mari: Here again you go from one extreme to another. i think it was Rudy's
>post that mentioned more people challenging Pirsig. But even that does not
>negate the possibility of reaching agreement does it? Who said: ">>>>why
>can't we all agree...." Rodney King said "why can't we all get along" What i
>said is why can't we work towards an agreement on something. Might be nice
>to have a MoQ not for profit org that could actually DO SOMETHING: feed
>somebody, create a charter school to educate in a new way, how about
>volunteer in the name of MoQ Humanities? Something beside rhethoric! That's
>what i want. i won't speak for others unless we stood untied about something
>substantive.
I think it is wrong to assume we aren't doing
anything just because we aren't doing it as
a group with MOQ in the title.
I feel I have applied it to my life.
These plans are fine if that's what you want to do.
It would be interesting to see a MOQ school.
But don't tell me I am not doing anything when you
don't know anything about my life.
>
>Kilgore Trout might say: and so it goes.......
>> Would you have felt the same need to
>Storytellers indeed change the world.....they're not the only ones who do.
>Their readers do to!
>> get after Picasso of not having a program to
>> unite the world?
>Exile is another story.
>> I think storytelling changes the world not
>> plans or programs so yes I do think Pirsig
>> is doing something and not hiding out.
>Mari
>> James Joyce--"silence, cunning, exile"
>>
>> Erin
Not sure of your point here.
Erin
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