From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Sat Aug 14 2004 - 16:36:01 BST
Hi HamPlatt, and all,
In response to Ham's contention that his concept of Immanent Essence
is an original metaphysical contribution, I pasted his thesis into my
word processor and replaced "Immanent Essence" with "Dynamic
Quality"; I also replaced the single word "immanent" with "dynamic"
and the single word "Essence" with "Quality." For those of us
familiar with the MOQ, this results in NO significant change in
meaning. I invite others to perform the same replacement and see if
they agree.
This is not to say that there is no difference between the two
philosophies. Ham's metaphysics is a not so thinly disguised theism.
This is clear form Ham's most recent exchange with Platt (relevant
portions pasted below), as well as from his talk of a "Master Plan"
and a "Creator" and freedom as a "divine gift" to man. Ham's theism
is further revealed in his thesis's closing paragraph, where we are
admonished to pick the God side of Pascal's wager. Though some will
say such a choice is prudent, it's always seemed to me the route of
the intellectual coward.
Despite the fact that "Quality" and "Essence" are interchangeable in
Ham's written thesis, Ham insists that Quality is secondary to
Essence, and that "Essence is the uncreated, undifferentiated and
absolute Source that most people would call God." According to Ham,
Pirsig would have a complete metaphysics if he would only "accept
Essence as the source of Quality."
But setting Essence above Quality serves no metaphysical purpose,
other than to make room for a "Creator" with a "Master Plan" which
includes freedom as a "divine gift" to man. Saying that Quality by
itself doesn't have the gumption to bootstrap it's own existence, but
that Essence does, is just a word game searching for the "Primary
Mover." As we all know the "Primary Cause" argument for the
existence of God fails because all it succeeds in doing is extending
the causal chain infinitely backward. In other words setting Essence
above Quality complicates the metaphysics, without adding any
explanatory value.
Thank you,
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
-- InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983 Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com "Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but this flash is everything." -- Henri Poincare' On 14 Aug 2004 at 3:47, hampday@earthlink.net wrote: Pirsig: "Quality is indivisible, undefinable and unknowable in the sense that there is a knower and a known, but a metaphysics can be none of these things. A metaphysics must be divisible, definable, and knowable, or there isn't any metaphysics. Since a metaphysics is essentially a kind of dialectical definition and since Quality is essentially outside definition, this means that a "Metaphysics of Quality" is essentially a contradiction in terms, a logical absurdity." (Lila, 5) ham: What Pirsig is trying to describe here is what I call call Essence. Essence is the uncreated, undifferentiated and absolute Source that most people would call God. (Sorry, Platt.) Value is man's realization of Essence, and is both dualistic (empirical) and monistic (subjective). A metaphysics of God may be a "logical absurdity". A metaphysics of Quality [Value] which encompasses the experiential and esthetic awareness of Essence is quite valid. And it's exactly what I have postulated in my thesis! platt: But there is a distinction between those synonyms and "man's reality." As soon as you introduce "man" you introduce the duality of man and not man. Pirsig's reality of Quality comes prior to that duality. Also, Pirsig has said that Quality is the ultimate reality: ham: It's pretty tough to exclude man when he is the subject of everything experienced. Again, he's defining God. Man's reality is a dualism. But it has an a prori source. If Pirsig would accept Essence as the source of Quality, he'd have a complete hypothesis. It would be called the Philosophy of Essence or, perhaps even, Essentialism. MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org Mail Archives: Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/ Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at: http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
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