Re: MD interaction between levels - ?

From: ml (mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com)
Date: Mon Sep 06 2004 - 00:12:42 BST

  • Next message: David Buchanan: "RE: MD The problem of one self and four discrete levels of static patterns"

    Thank you. It seemed powerful as
    I walked around struck by the idea.

    Vacations are good times to just
    let ideas play across the mind and
    chase each other...

    BTW enjoying the book...

    thanks--mel

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "David Morey" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 10:41 AM
    Subject: Re: MD interaction between levels - ?

    > coral analogy & living example -exactly how
    > SQ works I believe, very nice.
    >
    > DM
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "ml" <mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com>
    > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 8:47 AM
    > Subject: Re: MD interaction between levels - ?
    >
    >
    > > Hello Marsha.
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: MarshaV
    > > To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    > > Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 5:03 AM
    > > Subject: Re: MD interaction between levels - ?
    > >
    > >
    > > <snip>
    > >
    > > > I have a question. Why does it have to be hierarchical?
    > > > Why can't the 'four levels' be four major systems that
    > > > interact with each other? Interconnected. There can
    > > > still exist the respect for the old stability and the new
    > > > freedom.
    > >
    > > mel:
    > > If I understand correctly, the notion of heirarchy is
    > > from the order of their arising and the way in which
    > > each level emerges from the one that came before.
    > >
    > > To put it another way, you cannot have significant
    > > intellectual activity and subjects unless a society
    > > exists with all of its full wealth of subject matter,
    > > complexity, and structure for the intellect to draw
    > > upon.
    > >
    > > Similarly there is little possibility for a society if
    > > there are no biological beings to support, create,
    > > and enrich one.
    > >
    > > As there can be no biological beings without a
    > > supporting physical universe complete with its
    > > chemistry and chemicals, and processes.
    > >
    > > In practice, there are four major systems that
    > > interact with each other, Interconnected.
    > > But because of their unique connections, each
    > > 'daughter' system is in conflict at times with its
    > > 'mother' system, yet exists only because of it.
    > >
    > > Each level can only see any other level through
    > > the 'older' or original level's rules, the only ones
    > > by which it can itself operate. The higher level
    > > can see the rules of the lower level, but sees
    > > others as well. Those others that it sees are the
    > > rules than define the higher level AS higher.
    > >
    > > Stability may be the biggest illusion of all. In
    > > even our understanding of rock and metal the
    > > material of which each is constructed is very
    > > much more dynamic than the 'normal' or our
    > > accustomed view holds.
    > >
    > > In some way Pirsig might have done better to
    > > find another word than Static in the MoQ to get
    > > the notion of Less Dynamic across, as the word
    > > static can be read to mean unchanging.
    > >
    > > On a visit to the Monterrey Aquarium this summer
    > > it occurred to me that the MoQ is in some ways
    > > conceptually like a Coral. The new generation of
    > > coral are soft and mobile and have the ability and
    > > opportunity to go anywhere, they are Dynamic, but
    > > once their choice has been made, they are the
    > > newest or freshest accretion on their local part of
    > > the reef, they are becoming Static. While centimeters,
    > > meters, or significant fractions of a kilometer below
    > > our newly fixed coral polyp, are the dead and accreted
    > > mass of long Static supporting mass. Yet, even in the
    > > oldest level there is change; it compresses and
    > > begins to behave in a manner more like a rock, than
    > > anything living.
    > >
    > > So, in a way, the 'old stability' supports the new
    > > freedom.
    > >
    > > Hope this helps somewhat and I am sure that
    > > others will do better to clarify any questions. That's
    > > my attempt...
    > >
    > > thanks--mel
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
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    >
    >
    >
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