RE: MD The problem of one self and four discrete levels of static patterns

From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Mon Sep 06 2004 - 00:28:43 BST

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    Ilya Korobkov asked:
    How does it happen that in our ordinary life we don't feel ourselves as
    three separate entities - biological, social and intellectual, but feel
    ourselves as one whole self? If you say that the self is illusion, then I
    will ask, THE ILLUSION OF WHOM? ...WHERE or IN WHOM does this hierarchy
    exist? If there
    are no place and no one where or in whom the hierarchy exist then the very
    idea of hierarchy doesn't make any sense! We are exactly where we had
    started from.

    dmb butts in:
    The illusory nature of the self gets at the difference between Dynamic
    reality, the mystical reality, the reality of the Buddhas and ordinary,
    static, conventional reality. Any discussion of the real Self takes us
    beyond the ability of our language and concepts and is always bound to
    produce paradoxical or seemingly contradictory statements. I'd like to focus
    on the first question, which can largely be answered by developmental
    psychology, but let me just say that there are good answers to the more
    difficult question too. Its a question better answered by mystics and Zen
    masters than by any kind of conventional intellectual, so I'd recommend that
    approach.

    So why don't we feel ourselves as divided? First of all, I'd argue that we
    actually do experience the various levels all the time. I get hungry and
    sleepy every day and feel my biological self quite accutely every time I
    bump my head. I feel my social self when I show up for work on time, cash my
    check or drop my son off at school and I feel my intellectual self whenever
    I come here, open a decent book or magazine or otherwise enter the world of
    ideas. And who is it that is watching all that? This is where the great
    mystery comes into it. There are many names for this Witness but, again,
    this is the realm of mysticism, not developmental psychology. To get at this
    multi-layered self, Ken Wilber might be helpful...

    "...at each stage or level of development, the self is faced with certain
    tasks. How it negotiates those tasks determines whether it winds up
    relatively healthy or realtively disturbed. First and foremost, at each
    stage of development, the self starts out identified with that stage, and it
    must accomplish the tasks appropriate to that stage, whether learning toilet
    training or learning language. But in order for development to continue, the
    self has to let go of that stage, or disindentify with it, in order to make
    room for the new and higher stage. In other words, it has to DIFFERENTIATE
    from the lower stage, identify with the higher stage, and then integrate the
    higher with the lower."

    Notice how the process of development is basically described as a series of
    identities. Each stage brings a different world view and an expanded level
    of awareness moving from one's body, to larger and larger parts of society
    such as family, tribe, nation, and on to the intellectual self that can take
    all that in along with the worldviews from other times and cultures - and
    then even beyond intellectual levels too. In each case, assuming that growth
    is normal and healthy, the lower stages are included in the newer, higher
    identity. We don't, for example, forget how to use the toilet or the
    language when we move into the intellectual realm. Its just that we longer
    indentify our self with those things anylonger and in fact hardly can recall
    that we ever did. Its funny. Children who watch themselves preforming (on
    videotape) at lower levels are embarrassed and will often deny that it is
    really them on the tape. Many say they do not recall or try to invent
    excuses for the lower level behavior.

    Does that help?

    dmb

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