Re: RE; MD the individual in the MOQ

From: Arlo J. Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Mon Sep 06 2004 - 05:15:55 BST

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    Platt,

     Humans are born into language. It's a given at the social level, like air
    > at the biological level and atoms at the inorganic.

    And this language (social semiotic) shapes the selective decisions of the
    "figure sorting sand into piles". I am not denying the activity of
    "individuals", nor am I denying that individuals (and not societies) repsond to
    DQ. What I do deny is that these "individuals" respond intellectually outside
    (in any way) of their socio-cultural system.

    Indeed, if all it was "just" experiencing DQ, then, sure, rename the
    intellectual the individual all you want. But it is not just "experiencing" DQ
    that occurs at the intellectual level. It is experiencing followed by a
    representation or orientation to selective aspects of that experience. And that
    is filtered through the social semiotic.

    Thus, I repeat, the intellectual level emerges dialectically from individuals
    and social semiosis. It is not a product of one or the other, but a product of
    their relation.

    > > If anything, perhaps the biological level should be renamed the
    > > "individual" since it discusses biological entities responding to DQ
    > > without a social semiotic, whether amoebas or individuals devoid of a
    > > social semiotic. The result is the same, an endless stream of DQ and
    > > nothing else.
    >
    > Since when does the biological level discuss anything? You can't be
    > serious.

    What I meant, of course, was that the biological level "addresses" biological
    entities responding to DQ without a social semiotic. Here, of course, I
    mis-spoke, and should have said simply Quality, not DQ. As the amoeba responds
    (in Pirsig's analogy) simply and directly to Quality.

    To restate this another way, individuals "experience" but only through social
    semiosis can representation- and hence, the intellectual level- emerge.

    "Individuals" devoid of a social semiotic will not engage in the intellectual
    level at all. Do you agree or disagree?

    Arlo

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