From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Mon Sep 06 2004 - 20:18:51 BST
& it seems that when you create SQ you no longer
need conscious awareness, ever driven yourself
home with barely a conscious thought about the right
turn?
DM
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Buchanan" <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 12:28 AM
Subject: RE: MD The problem of one self and four discrete levels of static
patterns
> Ilya Korobkov asked:
> How does it happen that in our ordinary life we don't feel ourselves as
> three separate entities - biological, social and intellectual, but feel
> ourselves as one whole self? If you say that the self is illusion, then I
> will ask, THE ILLUSION OF WHOM? ...WHERE or IN WHOM does this hierarchy
> exist? If there
> are no place and no one where or in whom the hierarchy exist then the very
> idea of hierarchy doesn't make any sense! We are exactly where we had
> started from.
>
> dmb butts in:
> The illusory nature of the self gets at the difference between Dynamic
> reality, the mystical reality, the reality of the Buddhas and ordinary,
> static, conventional reality. Any discussion of the real Self takes us
> beyond the ability of our language and concepts and is always bound to
> produce paradoxical or seemingly contradictory statements. I'd like to
focus
> on the first question, which can largely be answered by developmental
> psychology, but let me just say that there are good answers to the more
> difficult question too. Its a question better answered by mystics and Zen
> masters than by any kind of conventional intellectual, so I'd recommend
that
> approach.
>
> So why don't we feel ourselves as divided? First of all, I'd argue that we
> actually do experience the various levels all the time. I get hungry and
> sleepy every day and feel my biological self quite accutely every time I
> bump my head. I feel my social self when I show up for work on time, cash
my
> check or drop my son off at school and I feel my intellectual self
whenever
> I come here, open a decent book or magazine or otherwise enter the world
of
> ideas. And who is it that is watching all that? This is where the great
> mystery comes into it. There are many names for this Witness but, again,
> this is the realm of mysticism, not developmental psychology. To get at
this
> multi-layered self, Ken Wilber might be helpful...
>
> "...at each stage or level of development, the self is faced with certain
> tasks. How it negotiates those tasks determines whether it winds up
> relatively healthy or realtively disturbed. First and foremost, at each
> stage of development, the self starts out identified with that stage, and
it
> must accomplish the tasks appropriate to that stage, whether learning
toilet
> training or learning language. But in order for development to continue,
the
> self has to let go of that stage, or disindentify with it, in order to
make
> room for the new and higher stage. In other words, it has to DIFFERENTIATE
> from the lower stage, identify with the higher stage, and then integrate
the
> higher with the lower."
>
> Notice how the process of development is basically described as a series
of
> identities. Each stage brings a different world view and an expanded level
> of awareness moving from one's body, to larger and larger parts of society
> such as family, tribe, nation, and on to the intellectual self that can
take
> all that in along with the worldviews from other times and cultures - and
> then even beyond intellectual levels too. In each case, assuming that
growth
> is normal and healthy, the lower stages are included in the newer, higher
> identity. We don't, for example, forget how to use the toilet or the
> language when we move into the intellectual realm. Its just that we longer
> indentify our self with those things anylonger and in fact hardly can
recall
> that we ever did. Its funny. Children who watch themselves preforming (on
> videotape) at lower levels are embarrassed and will often deny that it is
> really them on the tape. Many say they do not recall or try to invent
> excuses for the lower level behavior.
>
> Does that help?
>
> dmb
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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