Re: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Thu Sep 09 2004 - 18:07:12 BST

  • Next message: David Morey: "Re: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test"

    Hi

    I always find my answer is not one of the choices!

    DM

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "MarshaV" <marshalz@i-2000.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 9:44 PM
    Subject: Re: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test

    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > Personality types? Interesting questions! I've taken three different
    > versions of the Myers-Briggs tests, and the same personality came up all
    > three times. Were these static patterns of personality?
    >
    > MarshaV
    >
    >
    > At 01:00 PM 9/8/2004 -0600, you wrote:
    > >David,
    > >
    > >That is a good question. Not sure how
    > >to think of those, morally... hmmm.
    > >
    > >Morally, it seems that it comes down to the
    > >intent of the test on the one hand and the
    > >application-evaluation on the other.
    > >
    > >Is the definition of a personality type a
    > >social definition or an intellectual one?
    > >
    > >Is the operational level of the individual
    > >social or intellectual?
    > >
    > >Is the requiring entity a social entity with
    > >a purpose of dominating a biological
    > >individual, or a social individual, or an
    > >intellectual?
    > >
    > >Does the test TRULY measure what is
    > >needed or is i simply being pulled off
    > >the shelf as a "close" match?
    > >
    > >Does the test truly reflect the possible
    > >universe of test takers?
    > >
    > >In evaluation, how are the "corner-cases"
    > >and "outliers" handled?
    > >
    > >
    > >================
    > >For existing tests...
    > >
    > >In operation however, those few times
    > >I've been involved in those exrcises, even
    > >when it was the same test, I ended up in
    > >very different quadrants. It seemed that
    > >the test answers were more a measure
    > >of my mood on THAT day, than anything
    > >at base about my personality.
    > >
    > >The assumptions of the test creator
    > >and the variability in personal use of
    > >language and education, when they
    > >are sufficiently different make a train
    > >wreck out of the whole thing. (The
    > >company or test creator will strongly
    > >deny such and discuss their validation
    > >testing, but it is always a "short cut"
    > >rather than rigorous...they have an
    > >axe to grind at the testing companie$.)
    > >
    > >So, before I even get to Moral, the tests
    > >generally tend to suck.
    > >
    > >Case in point, the best salesman I've
    > >known failed all the tests as a sales
    > >candidate given by his department.
    > >(He had already been working there
    > >before they started testing.)
    > >
    > >The tests said he was an introverted
    > >intellectual, an "engineer type", and
    > >not a "people person". What the test
    > >could not measure was that he had a
    > >passion for the product and that the
    > >buyers were largely engineer types,
    > >who resisted glad handing salesmen.
    > >
    > >Of course it may be that the tests I've
    > >seen were simply Schlock-jobs and
    > >that is why it looks so bad...
    > >
    > >A well designed test might show your
    > >tendency, but will ever measure the
    > >reality of perfomance choices in the real
    > >workplace. The only sure measure of a
    > >job is doing the job.
    > >
    > >thanks--mel
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >----- Original Message -----
    > >From: "David Morey" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
    > >To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > >Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 11:18 AM
    > >Subject: Re: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test
    > >
    > >
    > > > What about so-called personality tests?
    > > >
    > > > DM
    > > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > > From: "Scott Roberts" <jse885@earthlink.net>
    > > > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 7:05 PM
    > > > Subject: RE: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Mel,
    > > > >
    > > > > Since I am a nervous sort of person, I've never been able to imagine
    > > > > passing one, even without lying, so I too have always been bothered.
    It
    > > > > could be that they can take this into account, but I'm not inclined
    to
    > > > > trust them.
    > > > >
    > > > > My view is that if employers requires a lie detector test, or a
    > >urinalysis
    > > > > for that matter, then it is immoral to sign up with them, as well as
    it
    > > > > being immoral for them to require the test. Pretty much for reason
    (2),
    > > > the
    > > > > Giant dominating the individual.
    > > > >
    > > > > - Scott
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > > [Original Message]
    > > > > > From: ml <mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com>
    > > > > > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > > > > > Date: 9/7/2004 12:12:42 PM
    > > > > > Subject: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test
    > > > > >
    > > > > > All:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > What is the morality of a lie detector test as
    > > > > > a pre-employment test?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > It seems to me, for questions concerning your
    > > > > > opinions and personal views, to be:
    > > > > > 1) a physical level device placed in 'judgement'
    > > > > > over a biological being.
    > > > > > 2) a social level attempt at dominating the
    > > > > > intellectual function of a person.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > The very existence of the "test" bothered me
    > > > > > when I first heard of it at age five. Seemed that it
    > > > > > was somehow wrong, not unlike the feeling I
    > > > > > had at learning about the guilliotine or the rack.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > thanks--mel
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
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