From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Thu Sep 09 2004 - 18:06:21 BST
I think they suck and are trying to put DQ
related human beings into SQ boxes.
regards
DM
----- Original Message -----
From: "ml" <mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test
> David,
>
> That is a good question. Not sure how
> to think of those, morally... hmmm.
>
> Morally, it seems that it comes down to the
> intent of the test on the one hand and the
> application-evaluation on the other.
>
> Is the definition of a personality type a
> social definition or an intellectual one?
>
> Is the operational level of the individual
> social or intellectual?
>
> Is the requiring entity a social entity with
> a purpose of dominating a biological
> individual, or a social individual, or an
> intellectual?
>
> Does the test TRULY measure what is
> needed or is i simply being pulled off
> the shelf as a "close" match?
>
> Does the test truly reflect the possible
> universe of test takers?
>
> In evaluation, how are the "corner-cases"
> and "outliers" handled?
>
>
> ================
> For existing tests...
>
> In operation however, those few times
> I've been involved in those exrcises, even
> when it was the same test, I ended up in
> very different quadrants. It seemed that
> the test answers were more a measure
> of my mood on THAT day, than anything
> at base about my personality.
>
> The assumptions of the test creator
> and the variability in personal use of
> language and education, when they
> are sufficiently different make a train
> wreck out of the whole thing. (The
> company or test creator will strongly
> deny such and discuss their validation
> testing, but it is always a "short cut"
> rather than rigorous...they have an
> axe to grind at the testing companie$.)
>
> So, before I even get to Moral, the tests
> generally tend to suck.
>
> Case in point, the best salesman I've
> known failed all the tests as a sales
> candidate given by his department.
> (He had already been working there
> before they started testing.)
>
> The tests said he was an introverted
> intellectual, an "engineer type", and
> not a "people person". What the test
> could not measure was that he had a
> passion for the product and that the
> buyers were largely engineer types,
> who resisted glad handing salesmen.
>
> Of course it may be that the tests I've
> seen were simply Schlock-jobs and
> that is why it looks so bad...
>
> A well designed test might show your
> tendency, but will ever measure the
> reality of perfomance choices in the real
> workplace. The only sure measure of a
> job is doing the job.
>
> thanks--mel
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Morey" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 11:18 AM
> Subject: Re: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test
>
>
> > What about so-called personality tests?
> >
> > DM
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Roberts" <jse885@earthlink.net>
> > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 7:05 PM
> > Subject: RE: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test
> >
> >
> > > Mel,
> > >
> > > Since I am a nervous sort of person, I've never been able to imagine
> > > passing one, even without lying, so I too have always been bothered.
It
> > > could be that they can take this into account, but I'm not inclined to
> > > trust them.
> > >
> > > My view is that if employers requires a lie detector test, or a
> urinalysis
> > > for that matter, then it is immoral to sign up with them, as well as
it
> > > being immoral for them to require the test. Pretty much for reason
(2),
> > the
> > > Giant dominating the individual.
> > >
> > > - Scott
> > >
> > >
> > > > [Original Message]
> > > > From: ml <mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com>
> > > > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> > > > Date: 9/7/2004 12:12:42 PM
> > > > Subject: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test
> > > >
> > > > All:
> > > >
> > > > What is the morality of a lie detector test as
> > > > a pre-employment test?
> > > >
> > > > It seems to me, for questions concerning your
> > > > opinions and personal views, to be:
> > > > 1) a physical level device placed in 'judgement'
> > > > over a biological being.
> > > > 2) a social level attempt at dominating the
> > > > intellectual function of a person.
> > > >
> > > > The very existence of the "test" bothered me
> > > > when I first heard of it at age five. Seemed that it
> > > > was somehow wrong, not unlike the feeling I
> > > > had at learning about the guilliotine or the rack.
> > > >
> > > > thanks--mel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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