Re: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test

From: ml (mbtlehn@ix.netcom.com)
Date: Wed Sep 08 2004 - 20:00:52 BST

  • Next message: David Morey: "Re: MD A bit of reasoning"

    David,

    That is a good question. Not sure how
    to think of those, morally... hmmm.

    Morally, it seems that it comes down to the
    intent of the test on the one hand and the
    application-evaluation on the other.

    Is the definition of a personality type a
    social definition or an intellectual one?

    Is the operational level of the individual
    social or intellectual?

    Is the requiring entity a social entity with
    a purpose of dominating a biological
    individual, or a social individual, or an
    intellectual?

    Does the test TRULY measure what is
    needed or is i simply being pulled off
    the shelf as a "close" match?

    Does the test truly reflect the possible
    universe of test takers?

    In evaluation, how are the "corner-cases"
    and "outliers" handled?

    ================
    For existing tests...

    In operation however, those few times
    I've been involved in those exrcises, even
    when it was the same test, I ended up in
    very different quadrants. It seemed that
    the test answers were more a measure
    of my mood on THAT day, than anything
    at base about my personality.

    The assumptions of the test creator
    and the variability in personal use of
    language and education, when they
    are sufficiently different make a train
    wreck out of the whole thing. (The
    company or test creator will strongly
    deny such and discuss their validation
    testing, but it is always a "short cut"
    rather than rigorous...they have an
    axe to grind at the testing companie$.)

    So, before I even get to Moral, the tests
    generally tend to suck.

    Case in point, the best salesman I've
    known failed all the tests as a sales
    candidate given by his department.
    (He had already been working there
    before they started testing.)

    The tests said he was an introverted
    intellectual, an "engineer type", and
    not a "people person". What the test
    could not measure was that he had a
    passion for the product and that the
    buyers were largely engineer types,
    who resisted glad handing salesmen.

    Of course it may be that the tests I've
    seen were simply Schlock-jobs and
    that is why it looks so bad...

    A well designed test might show your
    tendency, but will ever measure the
    reality of perfomance choices in the real
    workplace. The only sure measure of a
    job is doing the job.

    thanks--mel

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "David Morey" < >
    To: < >
    Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 11:18 AM
    Subject: Re: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test

    > What about so-called personality tests?
    >
    > DM
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Scott Roberts" < >
    > To: < >
    > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 7:05 PM
    > Subject: RE: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test
    >
    >
    > > Mel,
    > >
    > > Since I am a nervous sort of person, I've never been able to imagine
    > > passing one, even without lying, so I too have always been bothered. It
    > > could be that they can take this into account, but I'm not inclined to
    > > trust them.
    > >
    > > My view is that if employers requires a lie detector test, or a
    urinalysis
    > > for that matter, then it is immoral to sign up with them, as well as it
    > > being immoral for them to require the test. Pretty much for reason (2),
    > the
    > > Giant dominating the individual.
    > >
    > > - Scott
    > >
    > >
    > > > [Original Message]
    > > > From: ml < >
    > > > To: < >
    > > > Date: 9/7/2004 12:12:42 PM
    > > > Subject: MD and the LIE DETECTOR test
    > > >
    > > > All:
    > > >
    > > > What is the morality of a lie detector test as
    > > > a pre-employment test?
    > > >
    > > > It seems to me, for questions concerning your
    > > > opinions and personal views, to be:
    > > > 1) a physical level device placed in 'judgement'
    > > > over a biological being.
    > > > 2) a social level attempt at dominating the
    > > > intellectual function of a person.
    > > >
    > > > The very existence of the "test" bothered me
    > > > when I first heard of it at age five. Seemed that it
    > > > was somehow wrong, not unlike the feeling I
    > > > had at learning about the guilliotine or the rack.
    > > >
    > > > thanks--mel
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
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