From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Tue Jan 21 2003 - 13:23:11 GMT
Hi Joe:
> joe: the questions I was trying to raise were How does a theory of
> knowledge necessary to MoQ differ from abstraction in SOM? What is the
> validity of our experience? Persig proposed an instinctive sense
> explaining how a baby learns, and how we know quality in a rhetorical
> composition. How does this apply to static quality? Your answer seems to
> be we experience static quality. I assume you mean it is instinctively
> sensed, and we use a word for the pattern. Is it your position that
> "latching" is built into the instinctive sense when "evolution toward
> betterment" is sensed?
Yes. My "position" is that moral judgment occurs simultaneously with
perception as an instinctive response. When we perceive a pattern we
immediately decide not only what it is but whether it's good, bad or
indifferent to us. Higher animals respond instinctively the same way.
> Platt
> > I would guess the same way as the moral order is configured, i.e., by a
> > hierarchy of inorganic, biological, social and intellectual levels.
>
> joe: as I understand your answer you would also see the instinctive sense
> to be configured with the ability to experience the moral orders. Our
> instinctive sense: is the moral order sensing, evolution judging, quality
> experiencing faculty of a sentient being. I don't know that I agree with
> that.
I presume by "moral orders" you mean Pirsig's unique hierarchy of
moral levels. Our moral judgments relate to one or more of these levels.
Jumping off a hot stove is a biological judgment. Blocking Communist
infiltration of the local school is a social judgment. Determining the
meaning of a sentence is an intellectual judgment. Extending morality
beyond social behavior makes the MoQ new and different.
> Joe
> > > Static quality preserves an experienced Dynamic movement?
> >
> Platt
> > Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Many Dynamic experiences come and
> > go with no static preservation at all.
>
> joe: the instinctive sense can accept or reject an experience based on its
> judgement of the need for static preservation? The definition of the
> instinctive sense is becoming large.
The instinctive moral sense is like intuition--not always right when
judged in the fullness of time.
> joe: I assume a Creator is not instinctively sensed?
Instinctively we want someone to care about us. IMO this is the source
of belief in God.
> Joe
> > > "Impossible to evolve sentient from non-sentient forms." I agree, so
> what
> > > can be added?
> >
> Platt
> > A universal principle of betterment that drives evolution.
>
> joe: between 'betterment' and 'evolution' I don't know which is the cart
> and which is the horse, or how they are sensed?
DQ is the horse, SQ is the cart. Both are sensed instinctively.
> Platt
> > I would put Existence and Purpose as subsets of Quality, but agree that
> > they are absolutes.
>
> joe: you are making conditions for a huge instinct sense in order to sense
> 'subsets' in the way it is configured. I don't know how the 'instinctive
> sense' so configured would differ from the mind and will of SOM?
"Subsets" is an intellectual judgment. It harmonizes with my intellectual
pattern. So I instinctively judge it to be better.
> Platt I do want to
> Thank You! for the courtesy of your response!
Ditto. I'm enjoying our conversation very much.
Platt
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