From: jhmau (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon Jan 20 2003 - 22:06:12 GMT
Hi Platt and All,
> Hi Joe, All:
>
Joe
> > The Metaphysics Of Quality according to Persig is that Quality is
divided
> > into Dynamic and Static Quality. Quality is the only absolute. The
theory
> > of How I know Quality is through undefined, instinctive experience, like
> > how a baby learns. How I know the pattern of static quality, or how dq
> > becomes a pattern is unclear?
>
Platt
> I think we know patterns of static quality by what we see around us in
> everyday experience. DQ comes as a surprise. DQ becomes a new
> pattern when it is perceived as better than a current static pattern and
is
> "latched" when it becomes obvious that the new pattern contributes to
> evolution towards betterment.
joe: the questions I was trying to raise were How does a theory of knowledge
necessary to MoQ differ from abstraction in SOM? What is the validity of
our experience? Persig proposed an instinctive sense explaining how a baby
learns, and how we know quality in a rhetorical composition. How does this
apply to static quality? Your answer seems to be we experience static
quality. I assume you mean it is instinctively sensed, and we use a word
for the pattern. Is it your position that "latching" is built into the
instinctive sense when "evolution toward betterment" is sensed?
Joe
> > It is also unclear how the instinctive sense
> > is configured?
>
Platt
> I would guess the same way as the moral order is configured, i.e., by a
> hierarchy of inorganic, biological, social and intellectual levels.
joe: as I understand your answer you would also see the instinctive sense to
be configured with the ability to experience the moral orders. Our
instinctive sense: is the moral order sensing, evolution judging, quality
experiencing faculty of a sentient being. I don't know that I agree with
that.
Joe
> > Moral orders, instinctively sensed, add complexity to an
> > individual?
>
Platt
> They are present at birth, but become more developed as growth occurs.
joe: I appreciate your opinion. I wonder what the growth of awareness, or
development of senses mean, as I try to stop time?
Joe
> > Static quality preserves an experienced Dynamic movement?
>
Platt
> Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Many Dynamic experiences come and
> go with no static preservation at all.
joe: the instinctive sense can accept or reject an experience based on its
judgement of the need for static preservation? The definition of the
instinctive sense is becoming large.
Joe
> > Are
> > moral orders absolute?
>
Platt
> In the MoQ the moral hierarchy is absolute. As Pirsig says, "They are
> exhaustive . . . nothing is left out."
joe: I assume a Creator is not instinctively sensed?
Joe
> > "Impossible to evolve sentient from non-sentient forms." I agree, so
what
> > can be added?
>
Platt
> A universal principle of betterment that drives evolution.
joe: between 'betterment' and 'evolution' I don't know which is the cart and
which is the horse, or how they are sensed?
Joe
> > Quality Is Value. I suggest There are Three absolutes: Quality,
Existence,
> > Purpose. There are three instincts, three brains to enable a movement
from
> > non-sentient to sentient.
>
Platt
> I would put Existence and Purpose as subsets of Quality, but agree that
> they are absolutes.
joe: you are making conditions for a huge instinct sense in order to sense
'subsets' in the way it is configured. I don't know how the 'instinctive
sense' so configured would differ from the mind and will of SOM?
Joe
> > Sentient: a being with a reflexive awareness of self. The self is
> > contained in one absolute at a time. Non-sentient: a being with only
> > positive, or negative awareness, or with positive and negative
awareness,
> > but no awareness from a third absolute.
>
Platt
> Would suggest using "Self-awareness" instead of "Sentient." Otherwise,
> I agree with your insight. Doing something is what all aware entities do.
> Knowing you are doing something with a purpose in mind is the grabber
> that sets us apart.
>
> Platt
joe: being certain enough to do something instead of riding off in all
directions to me seems to be a different sulbject. Platt I do want to Thank
You! for the courtesy of your response!
Joe
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