From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Thu Nov 18 2004 - 22:06:53 GMT
scott said:
What is clear from this is that the way you want to extend
"empirical" to include reason makes the word "empirical" lose any
distinctive value it might have.
msh replied:
I'm not sure what DMB would say here, but I'm not extending
"empirical" to include reason. I'm saying that any sentient deprived
of sensual input from birth will, upon emerging from his SD
environment, be INCAPABLE of reasoning for a measurable amount of
time.
scott said:
Then, I would say, you haven't escaped SOM.
msh says:
It is not my intention to "escape" SOM. I think SOM is encompassed
by the MOQ, not replaced by it. I think sometimes a SOM explanation
is perfectly adequate for describing much of what we experience, as
in the case of mathematics under discussion.
For me, the strength of the MOQ over SOM, in some cases, is that the
MOQ adds the dimension of Quality, so that quality value judgements
can be recognized and defended in SOM science, and in other relevant
aspects of everyday life.
In fact, and I might be risking the annoyance of my other friends
here on the list, I think Pirsig made a mistake when, in ZMM, he
decided to move away from his metaphysical trinity of Quality-Subject-
Object. In setting Quality above the other two, he began to say
things about Quality that have exposed him to a lot of not entirely
unwarranted philosophical criticism. From that point on in ZMM and
throughout LILA, this talk of Quality has resulted in the weakening
(degeneracy) of his metaphysics. To his great credit, he knew this
would happen, but considered the explanatory power of the MOQ to be
worth the risk.
Anyway, that's where I stand at the moment. Maybe after I read the
Copleston with RMP's comments things will change...again.
Thanks,
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
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