From: Scott Roberts (jse885@earthlink.net)
Date: Sat Nov 20 2004 - 17:32:43 GMT
Simon,
> Scott Roberts wrote:
> >[Scott:] There is SQ involved whenever there is DQ involved, which is to
> >say, always. DQ without SQ is meaningless. That's why I say that the
model
> >we have that best shows DQ/SQ interaction is intellect. "Just value" is
> >meaningless. It has to be in reference to some state of affairs.
>
[SM:]> The whole point - the single most important statement - of the MOQ
is that
> "just value" is NOT meaningless. His answer to the dilemma given him at
> Bozeman was that Quality is independent of, and without any necessary
> reference to, both subject and object - he says that it is quite the
> opposite and that subjects and objects are only experienced with
reference
> to value. So, to correct your statement above, it is more that your
"state
> of affairs" has to be in reference to value.
>
> This indicates a glaring misreading/misunderstanding/dismissal on your
part.
[Scott:] Yes, subjects and objects are only experienced with reference to
value, but that does not imply that value exists without subjects and
objects (or with some other form). If you claim that value can exist
without reference to some state of affairs then you are treating value as
an independent, self-contained god, ignoring the Buddhist dictum: form is
not other than emptiness, emptiness is not other than form.
In ZAMM, after realizing that Quality is neither subjective nor objective,
he goes on to realize that Quality produces both subject and object. Of
course, we can understand the cut in other ways, notably as DQ/SQ. But
unless it cuts in some way or other, it is meaningless.
- Scott
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