From: Scott Roberts (jse885@earthlink.net)
Date: Sun Nov 21 2004 - 17:04:49 GMT
DMB,
> scott said:
> What is clear from this is that the way you want to extend "empirical" to
> include reason makes the word "empirical" lose any distinctive value it
> might have.
>
> dmb says:
> That's silly. The word just means that knowledge is based on experience,
> experience that is verifiable. As I've already tried to explain several
> times, expanding the basis of empirical experience beyond SENSORY
EXPERINCE
> does not distort the meaning of this word, it only refers to a different
> kind of verifiable experience. Why is the mental experience of mathematics
> NOT empirical? To insist that the eye of flesh is the only eye is to be
> hopelessly materialistic, no? This is SOM. This is flatland. This is the
> limited epistemolgy that the MOQ is meant to overcome, see?
Then what is not empirical? Even an argument from authority (which is what
the perennial philosophy is) is a matter of saying that those other folks
(the Buddha, Shankara, etc.) had experiences and I take their word on it
that if I do what they say I can have similar experiences. If that's
empirical, then all faith is empirical. A theist, for example, will claim
that they experience a higher quality life with faith in God than they
would without it. So faith is empirical, as it is verified by experience.
If reason is to be considered empirical, then how do you distinguish
between those who used to be called rationalists (like Spinoza) and those
who used to be called empiricists (like Locke)?
It is looking more and more like the MOQ is just trying to gain credibility
by claiming that it, like science, is empirical, but in doing so has gutted
all useful distinction that the term had, so that whatever it claims can be
called empirical.
- Scott
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