From: Ian Glendinning (ian@psybertron.org)
Date: Tue Nov 23 2004 - 01:30:08 GMT
Jo,
I think I like where you're going with this.
Unfortunately I'm going off-line for a few days !
I expect the MoQ Discussion forum has been here before, but I haven't.
How do we use the MoQ to arrive at the common-sense we can agree we have in
common ?
At least in the human debate, I hope we can agree when we're debating the
social and intellectual levels with little confusion over biological and
physical.
I think the key is noticing when the intellectual debate you're having is
validly constrained by social "convention" - but as I say, I'm new in this
territory.
I've been waiting two years for MD discussions to get to this point free of
the religious and scientific baggage.
I think the "debate" between levels of MoQ *IS* the source of truth.
Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Maurer" <jhmau@sbcglobal.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: MD Time Out - Source of Truth ?
> On 20 November 2004 9:22 AM Ian writes to Platt, Joe, Mark, (and all),
>
> Platt - "Some agreed upon ethical standard ?"
> The MoQ again, what else ? BUT please note ...
> As Mark says - "I don't think [anyone or anything] should be in the
business
> of setting and enforcing moral or religious standards AT ALL."
> The MoQ is a framework for judging and evaluating relative values and
> ethics, not a fixed standard - that would be a Static Quality imposed on
the
> whole framework. As you say yourself Platt, quoting Robert "To put
> philosophy in the service
> of any social organization or any dogma is immoral. It's a lower form of
> evolution trying to devour a higher one." This is as true of the MoQ as
any
> other basis of values. This is where Lila goes off the rails IMHO -
> suggesting MoQ is some axiomatic metaphysics. There is nothing fixed about
> MoQ other than its (evolutionary) shape. A good, wise, common-sense,
> empirical (true) basis for evaulating relative values, not a fixed set of
> values. There is no bootstrap here - get used to it.
>
>
> Hi Ian, Platt, Mark and all,
>
> I enjoy "A good, wise, common-sense, empirical (true) basis for evaluating
> relative values, not a fixed set of values." I hesitate "one man's meat is
> another man's poison." How is the common-sense appreciated and accepted by
> an individual? What is the antidote to another's poison? Trust in my own
> opinion is a damn circle.
>
> IMO It is difficult to accept that evolution has produced a three level
> hierarchy for moral consideration, yet common-sense or morality seems to
> start there, "you'll know it when you see it". How does an organic talk to
a
> social? How does an intellectual talk to an organic? How does a social
talk
> to an organic, leaving aside a big stick? How do the three levels accept
the
> ministrations of the inorganic parent? Inorganic science has its place,
but
> sometimes inorganic science applied to behavior is not common-sense. What
> then?
>
> IMO mystical experience does not reveal central truths of itself or
> experience. Mystical experience is common-sense. When speaking from my
> common-sense it might be useful for me to know in what way I am deranged.
> What experience do I have of insanity? In what do I place an honesty to
> acknowledge that what is true for me may not be true for you, but we
should
> keep talking. We may find common-sense. Know thyself! Get used to it.
>
> I was student in a Dominican run College in Mich., after being a
peacekeeper
> in Korea. My professor, a Dominican monk told he had no fear that I would
> end in an insane asylum from the way I think. I was fortunate to grow up
on
> a farm. I had the land as an anchor to stay out of the asylum. He was
pretty
> strange himself, and I didn't put much weight on his words. That was 52
> years ago. I remember the sense of his words, I don't remember his name.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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