Re: MD "Is there anything out there?"

From: Leif Gunnar Alvær (lgalvaer@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Jan 03 2005 - 14:24:45 GMT

  • Next message: MarshaV: "RE: MD Is the MoQ still in the Kantosphere?"

    Quote:
    >I say
    >But its the same "empirical" reality they are both describing / modelling.
    >Physics is not confined to the Inorganic SQ box, unless you constrain
    >physics it to a very limited set of classical laws. Few physicists since
    >1920's have been happy to be locked in that box - read Heisenberg /
    >Schroedinger etc.
    >Physics (by axiomatic definition) can describe all the processes of all
    >reality, every thought we have is founded on physics, but at the high
    >social
    >/ intellectual er levels of complexity it simply ceases to be very useful
    >for day to day descriptions, predictions and decisions.
    >DQ/SQ/Layers model is simply a better model of empirical reality for most
    >day to day real life. But it's only a model / metaphor.
    Unquote

    what do you mean Physics can describe all the processes of all reality????
    According to physics, a thought is mearly elctrical activity in some areas
    ot the brain. IS that all a thought is? Some elements of reality cannot be
    described by physics, it is as simple as that, or am I (what am I anyway,
    apart from a coctail of chemicals and electrical impulses) missing something
    here?

    `Brgrds / Lupus Lupus

    >From: "Ian Glendinning" <ian@psybertron.org>
    >Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    >To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    >Subject: Re: MD "Is there anything out there?"
    >Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 12:15:39 -0000
    >
    >Huh ?
    >
    >Platt said:
    >How do you explain that reality obeys mathematical laws created by
    >intelligence?
    >Paul replied:
    >Reality doesn't obey mathematical laws. Reality just does what it does and
    >mathematical laws are a good approximation of what some of it tends to do.
    >
    >I say
    >Some of reality DOES obey some mathematical laws.
    >The point is NO mathematical laws are created by intelligence, any more
    >than
    >Newton (or Einstein) created gravity.
    >Reality behaves according to physics, many physical relationships exhibit
    >mathematical rules, maths itself is full of axiomatic relationships. Some
    >parts of maths & physics are axiomatic by definition - the snake eating its
    >own tail as DMB says.
    >
    >DMB goes on to say
    >If "reality" means the universe that physicists study, then the MOQ would
    >describe it as inorganic static patterns of quality.
    >But if we're talking about the primary empirical reality, which is DQ, and
    >DQ is described as indefinable and only apprehended by non-rational means,
    >then all the formulas and equations in the world are of absolutely no use
    >and have nothing at all to say about "reality".
    >
    >I say
    >But its the same "empirical" reality they are both describing / modelling.
    >Physics is not confined to the Inorganic SQ box, unless you constrain
    >physics it to a very limited set of classical laws. Few physicists since
    >1920's have been happy to be locked in that box - read Heisenberg /
    >Schroedinger etc.
    >Physics (by axiomatic definition) can describe all the processes of all
    >reality, every thought we have is founded on physics, but at the high
    >social
    >/ intellectual er levels of complexity it simply ceases to be very useful
    >for day to day descriptions, predictions and decisions.
    >DQ/SQ/Layers model is simply a better model of empirical reality for most
    >day to day real life. But it's only a model / metaphor.
    >
    >The DQ models "primary empirical reality" much better than the Physics
    >model, for most of real life, but they both model the whole of reality.
    >That value judgement - "better" - is what the MoQ s about, but there is no
    >exclusivity or absolution here.
    >
    >Ian
    >
    >
    >----- Original Message -----
    >From: "David Buchanan" <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
    >To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    >Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 10:56 PM
    >Subject: RE: MD "Is there anything out there?"
    >
    >
    > > Platt said:
    > > How do you explain that reality obeys mathematical laws created by
    > > intelligence?
    > >
    > > Paul replied:
    > > Reality doesn't obey mathematical laws. Reality just does what it does
    > > and mathematical laws are a good approximation of what some of it tends
    > > to do.
    > >
    > > dmb says:
    > > If "reality" means the universe that physicists study, then the MOQ
    >would
    > > describe it as inorganic static patterns of quality. And instead of the
    >laws
    > > of physics we have an extremely consistent pattern of preferences. So
    >its
    > > the "behaviour" of those static patterns that can be described and
    >predicted
    > > with mathematical precision. This is a matter of correspondence between
    >two
    > > levels of static reality, inorganic and intellectual. This is a snake
    >eating
    > > its own tail.
    > >
    > > But if we're talking about the primary empirical reality, which is DQ,
    >and
    > > DQ is described as indefinable and only apprehended by non-rational
    >means,
    > > then all the formulas and equations in the world are of absolutely no
    >use
    > > and have nothing at all to say about "reality".
    > >
    > > Now put that pencil back in your pocket protector and back away slowly
    >:-)
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
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    >
    >
    >
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