From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Fri Jan 07 2005 - 03:22:58 GMT
Hi Rich,
On 5 Jan 2005 at 19:40, Richard Loggins wrote:
Hi MSH,
I realize I'm not the freindliest of people. Its something I'm
working on.
msh says:
No worries. I've got a thick skin. :-)
rich:
Naturaly, all waves (and therefor Shrodingers wave equation) can be
described by combinations of sines and cosines and so can be related
to Euler's generalized relation. But the famous special case of
Euler's generalized equation involving e, i, pi, 1, and 0 which you
talked about is NOT used as "the BASIC equation of ANY wave motion, a
wave on water, the sound waves coming from an air raid siren, or
electromagnetic radiation."
msh says:
It's true that 2-d wave motion (such as what might be graphed in an
analytic geometry class or seen on an oscilloscope) can be adequately
described using simple trig without reference to imaginary numbers.
But when we're talking about waves in the real world, my
understanding is that complex equations work best and are easier to
handle. This is where Euler comes in, by letting us take advantage
of the relationship between e, i, and pi.
rich:
That's just poppy-cock but if you got that information from
Scientific American magazine I wouldn't be surprized. I'm a math
teacher and being a stickler about such things is my nature, but
perhaps your Phd buddy could show me wrong.
msh says:
I'm surprised you hold SciAm in such low regard. I haven't heard
back from my friend in Ohio, but they've been hammered by winter the
last several days, and he may still be digging out. But you may be
able to poke around in your books, or on the web, and verify this for
yourself.
rich:
As to your larger point that we should be wow'd by the correlation
between math and so-called physical reality,
msh says:
I don't think I'd use the word "wow'd"; it's more like respectful
interest, a mild "hmmm..."
rich:
and that there is more to it than tweeking equations until it fits
the data,
msh says:
I think any scientist will tell you that what they do is more than
tweaking equations... But maybe that's just a self-respect thing. I
know when I was hiking around the Colorado Plateau, measuring
crossbed striations in aeolian sandstone, the equations were the easy
part.
rich:
let me remind you that math is as much a creation of our intellect as
the physical world is, and since the original purpose for math was to
count objects in a subject-object world of our making, it shouldn't
come as any surprize that the relationship comes full circle and
applies the other way round.
msh says:
I've said in other posts re this subject that this is certainly a
possibility.
rich:
As a consequence math, excepting its creative aspects,has nothing to
do with Quality, as it exists solely in a closed world of impersonel
objectivism, and our cultures' worship of math, instagated I think by
those whoare in awe of something they incompletely understand, right
down to the philosophic level,is sympomatic of it's failure to be
awed instead by the primary reality of quality and value.
msh says:
My guess is that Feynmann understood math far better than you and I
put together. He still had room for a little awe for the Euler
Identity.
rich:
I don't know..it could be that maybe I'm the insane one or it's just
the w! hiskey talking. I'm from Jersey too. Whereabouts are you? Want
to have a drink sometime?
msh says:
Well, I'm not really from Jersey. When I say "I'm just a guy from
Jersey" I'm swiping a thought from the movie "Eddie and The
Cruisers." When the genius band leader, Eddie, tries to get his guys
to play his music, he tells them he wants this music to be not just
good, but GREAT. Sal the bass player says "Great? Eddie we're not
great; we're just some guys from Jersey."
I'm actually from Southern California, but have lived in the woods
near Mt. Rainier, WA, for the last 15 years. I don't travel much, as
I get nervous around the humans. But if you ever get out this way...
Best,
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
--
InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com
"The shadows that a swinging lamp will throw,
We come from nowhere and to nothing go."
Mark Steven Heyman <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com> wrote:
Hi Rich,
Nice to hear from you again, and thanks for the courteous and
thoughtful commentary.
On 3 Jan 2005 at 20:25, Richard Loggins wrote:
MSH said: "The whole of quantum physics depends upon
this simple equation. It is the basic equation of any wave motion, a
wave on water, the sound waves coming from an air raid siren, or
electromagnetic radiation."
rich:
Oh come on. you must be joking. You can't really believe everything
you read on the internet.
msh says:
LOL. Well, yes, obviously I've over-simplified things to make my
point in a few paragraphs. But you've made the simplification more
extreme by limiting my point to the two sentences above. The fact is
that equations in the form I've described are found throughout the
physical sciences, and are especially obvious in any discussion
surro! unding the Schroedinger equation, which was the first thing
that gave people confidence in such a crazy system as quantum
mechanics.
As for your comment about the internet as a source of information, I
don't believe anything I read there, or anywhere else, unless I can
discover independent corrorboration. But why should reading an
article, say, on The Scientific American website be any less reliable
than reading the magazine itself?
Finally, I should emphasize that I'm not suggesting that these
equations somehow prove that God exists and that she's a
mathematician. My point is that the correlation between math and
physical reality is more than just measuring things, then tweaking
equations till they are useful.
Thanks,
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
-- InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983 Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com "The shadows that a swinging lamp will throw, We come from nowhere and to nothing go." MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org Mail Archives: Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/ Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at: http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
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