From: Phaedrus Wolff (PhaedrusWolff@carolina.rr.com)
Date: Sat Jan 08 2005 - 22:41:13 GMT
> Chin earlier)What I believe is that this mystical experience does come
from
> > the mind, in that it is intuitive.
>
> Platt)I also believe mystical experience is intuitive since it is what we
> experience before we put anything into words.
>
> Chin)Such as in DQ?
Platt)Yes.
Chin)Good. It seems we are agreed on this. I must ask why?
What I am thinking is within two sides of the brain working together, that
one side is logic and reason, and the other side aesthetic and intuition.
The two sides of the brain do not work apart from each other as left and
right side, but communicate with each other on all things. Logic and reason
are our SQ, and beauty and intuition are our DQ feeders.
As I said to Marsha earlier, it is the artists that are on the leading edge
of Quality. I also stated science is an art, and I would add math is an art
as well. The static procedures we follow in doing experiments or equations
are driven by a value; a will. This will that is driven to keep pushing the
numbers or pushing the experiments is driven by intuition. If there was no
expected outcome, then there would be no 'reason' to continue to push the
envelope. Logic or reason would simply say we have the answer -- stop. When
this logic or reason is questioned, then it is questioned by something.
Ham had asked earlier "Who tells us what is right?"
The only reason I can see for this question would be the idea that we are
born with an evil flesh as the interpretations of the Bible by the church
Fathers offer. Unless you have been saved, then you are evil. Your purpose
on this earth is to overcome this evil so you can get into Heaven.
In Zen, we are told to look within. It is in this intuition that we find the
answer to "What is right?" Though the mystical experience is, like Quality,
not defined, you come away with knowledge; a knowledge that shows you the
Beauty of the world. As you say, it is right here in front of us, and we
just don't see it because our reason only holds object and subject; beauty
is only something you want or desire for yourself.
It would seem to me that the MOQ fully supports the idea that knowledge is
both reason and intuition; logic and Beauty; not logic or Beauty. This is
what makes up the intellect. This is the driving force that causes the world
to continue to improve; it is what causes us to improve. It is Quality --
Value -- Beauty.
I would ask (not you, as you seem to agree); "How is the intellect advanced
without intuitive thought?"
I would also like to understand what Pirsig said. How is it that intuition
is confused with instinct? -- is it because of the reason and logic without
value? Is the difference between Western and Eastern though the ability to
know intuitively?
If that were the case, then I would say, yes, intuition is important to
understand.
Would it not seem that this is what Scott is saying as well? "But intellect
is the tool by which one purifies one's intellect" If the intellect were no
more than logic and reason, then there would be no 'reason' to purify what
is already reasonable.
It would seem to me that intuition fits in well with the idea of universal
moral standards in the previous thread. All we need is to look within for
our moral standards.
Thanks for the offerings. They seem to support what I am saying. Don't you
think?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>; <owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 12:41 PM
Subject: MD Intuition
> Hi Chin:
>
> You and I seem especially interested in intuition, so I've changed the
> name of the thread and hope others will chime on on the subject.
>
> > Chin earlier)What I believe is that this mystical experience does come
from
> > > the mind, in that it is intuitive.
> >
> > Platt)I also believe mystical experience is intuitive since it is what
we
> > experience before we put anything into words.
> >
> > Chin)Such as in DQ?
>
> Yes.
>
> > If you have read of this intuition, I would like to get a philosophical
> > view of it since I have not devoted much time to it. All that I remember
> > reading has only been a hint of what I would think intuition would mean.
> > For a philosopher, it would mean knowing the color red, or a blind man
> > knowing light(?)
>
> I think that's right. I can't offer you a philosophical view of intuition
> other the following few notes I've made on the subject over the years.
> They represent only the tip of the iceberg so to speak, so please
> consider them only as thought starters for possible future discussion.
>
> Pirsig on Intuition:
> "Intuition sometimes is an equivalent of Dynamic Quality. However, its
also a
> kind of biological instinct. Since Western philosophy confuses these two,
the
> MOQ avoids the term." (Annotations to Copleston Article)
>
> Intuition at Front Edge of Experience
> Intuition, the direct perception as felt on the pulses, is our sensory
link to
> Ultimate Value, the direct experience beyond words.
>
> Reality is not a concept, it's an experience felt on the pulses by pure
intuition.
>
> In the broad sense, "experience" is simply synonymous with direct
> apprehension, immediate givenness, intuition--sensory, mental, and
spiritual.
>
> Intuition sees values in the now moment. Perception makes identities
(names)
> with rudimentary links to the past. Concepts isolate common attributes and
> make patterns (units), classes, and abstractions to hold past, present and
> future.
>
> Nature of Intuition
> Saint Augustine 's answer to the riddle of time. "When I do not ask the
> question, I know the answer." Thought cannot grasp, but intuition can.
> Realize that all understanding depends on this "descent into ourselves."
>
> Intuition is immediate insight into the nature of relations whereby we
recognize
> distinctions and identities, contradictions and entailments. Thus the mind
> perceives that white is not black, that a circle is not a triangle, that
three are
> more than two, and equal to one and two. Such kinds of truths the mind
> perceives at the first sight of the ideas together, by bare intuition,
without the
> intervention of any other idea. Susan Langor.
>
> It is fruitless to answer ultimate questions using words and ideas. The
answers
> can only be hinted at through intuition.
>
> Dynamic understanding cannot be captured by definitions. The Tao Te Ching
> says, "He who speaks does not know. He who knows does not speak."
>
> Things which are intellectually meaningless nevertheless have value.
Pirsig.
>
> Intuition Related to Aesthetics
> Beauty is an intuitive perception, not an intellectual concept.
>
> A painting is seen in toto first. The understanding begins with an
intuition of
> the whole presented feeling, just as in real life we make instant whole
> judgments. A painting has an instant personality.
>
> Beauty is our intuitive guide to truth. That which is the most beautiful
is the
> most real.
>
> The author Louis L'Amore makes the point that all great artists rely on
their
> subconscious, i.e. intuition. He says to get a technique that will allow
your
> subconscious to go to work on what you're doing.
>
> Penrose: His best work arose not from any deductive logical process but
> from intuitions and insights into an indescribably beautiful Platonic
> realm.
>
> One of the central emotions of intuition and a major clue to the quality
of the
> revelation is a sense of esthetic pleasure. Something in true intuition
elicits
> the same response as a painting, a song, or the resolution of a well-told
tale.
> It has a certain symmetry and coherence, a sense of balance and
inevitability. When an idea doesn't fit it is like a dab of the wrong color
on a painting or the wrong dialogue in a play. It projects dissonance. When
people are asked how they can distinguish the exceptional intuition from the
mediocre, it is beauty that comes up consistently.
>
> History of Intuition
> Knowledge to ancient man seems to have been mainly intuition, and his
> intuition told him that man, earth, planets and stars are interrelated.
But his
> knowledge hardly extended beyond intuition.
>
> Bicameral mind, the switch from intuition to intellect, happened sometime
> between the building of the pyramids in 2500 BC and the birth of
Pythagoras
> in 500 BC. Christianity was a revival of the mystic against the
practicality of
> the Romans and the Stoicism of Greeks as helpless in the face of natural
> forces.
>
> Why did ego-consciousness (rationality) develop? Because intuition,
instinct
> was too sure of itself, therefore lazy and repetitive. Man has achieved
more in
> 3,000 years of bicameral consciousness than in the previous million years
of
> inner unity.
>
> How to Take Advantage of Intuition
> Greater faith in and more awareness of intuition improves the quality of
intuition.
>
> Confident thoughts along with the conviction that you deserve and expect
not
> only an answer but the best answer stirs intuition to positive action.
>
> Intuition expresses itself not in words but in promptings. Such things
tend to
> disappear unless you write them down.
>
> Instead of worshipping rationality, we should worship the beginning of
> rationality, the idea that came out of nowhere that rationality was worth
> fuller development. In other words, worship the out of nowhere thought,
> the intuition, the impulse and then say WAIT before you decide to discard
> it as having no useful value.
>
> Hope you find something here, Chin, that will spark more of your ideas on
> the subject.
>
> Best,
> Platt
>
>
>
>
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