From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Sun Jan 09 2005 - 15:00:45 GMT
Hi Chin,
> > >Chin earlier)What I believe is that this mystical experience does come
> >> from
> > > the mind, in that it is intuitive.
> > Platt)I also believe mystical experience is intuitive since it is what we
> > experience before we put anything into words.
> >
> > Chin)Such as in DQ?
>
> Platt)Yes.
>
> Chin)Good. It seems we are agreed on this. I must ask why?
>
> What I am thinking is within two sides of the brain working together, that
> one side is logic and reason, and the other side aesthetic and intuition.
> The two sides of the brain do not work apart from each other as left and
> right side, but communicate with each other on all things. Logic and reason
> are our SQ, and beauty and intuition are our DQ feeders.
Makes sense to me.
> As I said to Marsha earlier, it is the artists that are on the leading edge
> of Quality. I also stated science is an art, and I would add math is an art
> as well. The static procedures we follow in doing experiments or equations
> are driven by a value; a will. This will that is driven to keep pushing the
> numbers or pushing the experiments is driven by intuition. If there was no
> expected outcome, then there would be no 'reason' to continue to push the
> envelope. Logic or reason would simply say we have the answer -- stop. When
> this logic or reason is questioned, then it is questioned by something.
Right. Also, mathematical truths are judged by mathematicians themselves
by their beauty or "elegance."
> Ham had asked earlier "Who tells us what is right?"
> In Zen, we are told to look within. It is in this intuition that we find
> the answer to "What is right?" Though the mystical experience is, like
> Quality, not defined, you come away with knowledge; a knowledge that shows
> you the Beauty of the world. As you say, it is right here in front of us,
> and we just don't see it because our reason only holds object and subject;
> beauty is only something you want or desire for yourself.
Right.
> It would seem to me that the MOQ fully supports the idea that knowledge is
> both reason and intuition; logic and Beauty; not logic or Beauty. This is
> what makes up the intellect. This is the driving force that causes the
> world to continue to improve; it is what causes us to improve. It is
> Quality -- Value -- Beauty.
Yes, and yes again.
> Would it not seem that this is what Scott is saying as well? "But intellect
> is the tool by which one purifies one's intellect" If the intellect were no
> more than logic and reason, then there would be no 'reason' to purify what
> is already reasonable.
Agree.
> It would seem to me that intuition fits in well with the idea of universal
> moral standards in the previous thread. All we need is to look within for
> our moral standards.
Right. But the problem is when each of us looks within, we apparently see
different moral standards, based on individual life experiences. I don't
know the answer to that.
> Thanks for the offerings. They seem to support what I am saying. Don't you
> think?
Absolutely. Furthermore, we seem to agree that Beauty is a synonym for
Value and Quality. I've believed that for a long time. Beauty is
intuitive, and like Quality, it's examples will vary from person to
person, depending on individual life experiences.
Best,
Platt
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