Re: MD Understanding Quality and Power

From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Thu Jan 27 2005 - 22:15:35 GMT

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    On 24 Jan 2005 at 11:51, Platt Holden wrote:

    <snip msh list of US crimes against humanity>

    platt:
    So all these Presidents and all the people who supported them were
    wrong.

    msh says:
    Well, not if you've decided that your leaders are always right, by
    definition; that they always tell the truth, and always act with
    nothing but benevolent intentions. But I don't see how you can
    believe this, and still make a stink about social assistance programs
    and taxes.

    Also, you seem to be in favor of your government invading other
    countries to establish "democracy," so why would you think it's right
    for your government to overthrow democratic governments and replace
    them with brutal dictatorships? Cognitive dissonance, anyone?

    platt:
    Am I correct to assume you take pride in thinking of yourself
    as being like Pirsig's brujo, and are out to change the world for the
    better?

    msh says:
    I'm no brujo; I claim no mystical powers whatsoever. The
    enlightenment I speak of can be attained by anyone willing to do a
    little reading and thinking...

    msh before:
    Every once in a while, however, someone does take the time to verify
    the crimes mentioned and, when they do, they experience an
    irreversible paradigm shift in their understanding of power in the
    world. This shift is a Quality latch-up, and when enough
    co-existent organisms have completed the shift, the species as a
    whole takes another step toward Quality.

    platt:
    To believe that to order a soldier and his gun to fight against crime
    is itself a crime is to have an upside down view of reality which
    I'm happy to say Pirsig doesn't.

    msh asks:
    What crime was committed by the people of Afghanistan and Iraq, other
    than being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Suppose Tim McVeigh
    hadn't been caught, but instead fled to Idaho. Would your government
    have been justified in bombing Idaho?

    More generally, how does your theory of soldiers and guns apply when
    the criminals are the politicians who send the soldiers?

    Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
    --
    InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
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    "The shadows that a swinging lamp will throw,
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